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RaptorJesus

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I understand that but time restrictions neglect plus incorrect answers taking away from the score puts too much emphasis on being able to answer correctly as soon as you look at the problem. Take my math score on my PSAT for example, it's my lowest one, but my math score on MCAS was my highest. Both are time restricted tests but on MCAS I didn't have one minute per question as with SAT. When I have so many minutes to write an essay and answer other prompts and the article I have to read takes a large amount of the time even when skimmed through it gets ridiculous. I have no problem writing an essay short and sweet in getting to the point but that takes time to think about.

I agree, being allowed an hour to answer a dozen questions is overkill but only being allowed a 25 minutes to answer 25 questions and read/analyze an article is overkill in a negative way.
Not really. It's meant to separate the good from the great. It's nice to be able to get everything right, it's better to get everything right in a fast time.
 

katwalk

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Not really. It's meant to separate the good from the great. It's nice to be able to get everything right, it's better to get everything right in a fast time.
Passing standardized tests doesn't make you great. I made to 5% in the state for the MCAS and did pretty awesome on both the SATS and ACTS. I can't even do trig properly.
 

Labcoatguy

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Passing standardized tests doesn't make you great. I made to 5% in the state for the MCAS and did pretty awesome on both the SATS and ACTS. I can't even do trig properly.
Who said it made you great at everything? It just makes you great within the context of the test itself, which is just one measurement of ability used by, say, colleges. It's just as incorrect to say that tests are meaningless as it is to say that tests are perfect.
 

RaptorJesus

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Passing standardized tests doesn't make you great. I made to 5% in the state for the MCAS and did pretty awesome on both the SATS and ACTS. I can't even do trig properly.
I didn't say great in general, I said great at standardized tests. Also being good implies 90th percentile or higher, great is 99th percentile or higher. No one gets into a premier institution with low scores, its a fact of life. Also a state proficiency exam isn't exactly a test you show to college acceptance officials, its merely a test of are you good enough to function in the real world according to the states education standards.
 

RaptorJesus

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Who said it made you great at everything? It just makes you great within the context of the test itself, which is just one measurement of ability used by, say, colleges. It's just as incorrect to say that tests are meaningless as it is to say that tests are perfect.
You must spread around more SAT points to Labcoatguy before he can get into MIT.
 

katwalk

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Who said it made you great at everything? It just makes you great within the context of the test itself, which is just one measurement of ability used by, say, colleges. It's just as incorrect to say that tests are meaningless as it is to say that tests are perfect.
Trig is on the tests, so I would say that is relevant. I was expected to know calculus for a low end gen ed elective for an art major. :|
 

RaptorJesus

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Trig is on the tests, so I would say that is relevant. I was expected to know calculus for a low end gen ed elective for an art major. :|
Education isn't about learning specific tasks, but learning ways of thinking. Math teaches logical ordered thinking, art and music teach creativity, literature and rhetoric teach how to apply your thoughts to the written word, while science helps shape a critical examination of evidence. The fact that the average American student cannot achieve the low level proficiency that is beginner calculus, is an indictment of how lazy and stupid the average American student has become. Many, many countries consistenly outscore us in all metric of measurement for education achievement and proficiency and it's partly due to our dumbed down curriculum standards. There is a reason American college students do not make up the majority of university doctoral students in some fields(specifically engineering, and hard sciences), and it is because they simply aren't good enough to make the cut when competing against more driven international students from Asia/India.
 

katwalk

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I think a major problem is the method of teaching now. When I was in elementary and middle school I did great in things like science and math because I was actually taught how to solve the problems. In high school I was taught how to make computers and calculators solve it for you. Since I am the learn by instruction and doing not learn by reading sort of person this was crippling for me and I never could recover from it. :(

I LIKE learning, if you take a class that is hard and challenging but work through it and learn along the way you feel accomplished when you do well. That is enough motivation for me to stay up all night studying and working my ass off. If however, you put in tons and tons of work and learn nothing by the end you fell like crap and feel like you have thrown your time and money away. The father I go in education it seems like so much less of the former and more of the latter and it pisses me the hell off.
 

Labcoatguy

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Trig is on the tests, so I would say that is relevant. I was expected to know calculus for a low end gen ed elective for an art major. :|
Trig is just a small portion of the test. Just because you can't do trig doesn't mean you can't score well by doing well on the other parts. At the risk of clashing with your "everything sucks" outlook on life, there is such a thing as shades of gray, you know.
 

RaptorJesus

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I think a major problem is the method of teaching now. When I was in elementary and middle school I did great in things like science and math because I was actually taught how to solve the problems. In high school I was taught how to make computers and calculators solve it for you. Since I am the learn by instruction and doing not learn by reading sort of person this was crippling for me and I never could recover from it. :(

I LIKE learning, if you take a class that is hard and challenging but work through it and learn along the way you feel accomplished when you do well. That is enough motivation for me to stay up all night studying and working my ass off. If however, you put in tons and tons of work and learn nothing by the end you fell like crap and feel like you have thrown your time and money away. The father I go in education it seems like so much less of the former and more of the latter and it pisses me the hell off.
It's easy to put all the blame on the teachers, but really the blame probably lies in concert with students and parents as well.
 

katwalk

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Probably at least partially. Parents don't parent anymore, I regularly have to slam on the breaks for neighborhood kids who don't understand the concept of look both ways before crossing the street and crap like that. Kids grow up in the everything is easy and done by computer age so why put in effort. Calculators do the math for you, MSword corrects spelling and grammar mistakes, tv and videogames do the imagining for you. Why learn?
 

rickhamilton620

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There's definitely a negative side to all this technology infiltrating our lives for many people including myself.

I used to love reading, I still say I do, yet I can only get through a book (kindle via cell phone) when I'm in bed.

I've noticed I'm far more distractable than before as well, gotta check this, gotta refresh that. Not saying that "zomg tech is evil" but for a lot of people, it's hard to find a balance of an appropriate level of "connectedness"
 

katwalk

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There's definitely a negative side to all this technology infiltrating our lives for many people including myself.

I used to love reading, I still say I do, yet I can only get through a book (kindle via cell phone) when I'm in bed.

I've noticed I'm far more distractable than before as well, gotta check this, gotta refresh that. Not saying that "zomg tech is evil" but for a lot of people, it's hard to find a balance of an appropriate level of "connectedness"
Yeah the last time I read something properly was a power outage. :|
 

jedd_kenobi

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I can get so engrossed in a book that someone can say something to me that i won't hear them. I've never really bought into the whole kindle thing either. i really enjoy holding a physical copy of a book.
 

Blayde

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I can get so engrossed in a book that someone can say something to me that i won't hear them. I've never really bought into the whole kindle thing either. i really enjoy holding a physical copy of a book.
I know several people who've said that and then changed their minds once using one, and others who own both books and a kindle since books have a feel nothing else can replicate, but as someone who's used both, sometimes a kindle IS better, and cheaper since i read a lot, and a lot more portable.
 
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