Random Thoughts....

Dr_Grip

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I'm not against welfare or anything like that, there are so many vote buying things in there that it's just ridiculous
That does not make your last post less ridiculous: The white trash/bogan/chav downward spiral of being too uneducated/stupid/poor for contraception, more offspring, more lost employability, less money, less opportunities to ever make it out of the slums...

Check your data. In no welfare system of the western world you can actually gain anything, money-wise, by producing more offspring.
 

Spectre

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Of course a lot of people were still like "nah I don't need this" only to lose TV and freak out over it.

Also, I can't help but think that at least a few people bought one even though their tv was "digital ready" because the masses are n00bs. <_<
Not all the "digital ready" sets were, in fact, digital ready because the government dithered about it for so long. The original planned switchover date? 2000. Actual date? 2009. That's an eternity in electronics.

Others took the coupons, bought boxes and resold them on eBay to fools. :D

That does not make your last post less ridiculous: The white trash/bogan/chav downward spiral of being too uneducated/stupid/poor for contraception, more offspring, more lost employability, less money, less opportunities to ever make it out of the slums...

Check your data. In no welfare system of the western world you can actually gain anything, money-wise, by producing more offspring.
Actually, in the US, you can. Sadly.
 
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Dr_Grip

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Actually, in the US, you can. Sadly.
You're talking about gaining citizenship, aren't you? That's a completely different situation then the one i was talking about.
 

jedd_kenobi

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love mushy peas, although i love Marrowfat Peas even more.



with a nice steak pie, mashed potatoes and then with gravy... bit of lea & perrin's worcester sauce on top. mmmm lovely!
 

katwalk

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You're talking about gaining citizenship, aren't you? That's a completely different situation then the one i was talking about.

No I think you can make a very slight profit off of welfare by playing the system just right. As an example but a totally justified one in this case, my friend is on disability and welfare for mental illness. This is ok in her case as she has severe anxiety and having a job would result in constant panic attacks but they occasionally will give you it for something like ADD. On the other end of the scale you have me who will probably not be able to qualify for poor people health insurance due to the money from my dad hitting this year despite the fact I have had no actual income since 2007. If this is the case I expect most of it to be gone by next year from medical expenses due to many hundred dollar prescriptions and constant needed doctor visits. I will also be fined for not being able to afford health insurance. :|
 

jedd_kenobi

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Mushy Peas are the only peas I'll eat. They don't really do 'em int chippy's in Sweaty Sockland so we mek our own.

In fact if you ask for a carton of gravy in a chippy up 'ere they look at you like you've getten two heads. :|
thats ok, we get our own back on them whenever they ask for some Haggis.
 

Dr_Grip

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No I think you can make a very slight profit off of welfare by playing the system just right. As an example but a totally justified one in this case, my friend is on disability and welfare for mental illness.
That's not making a profit. That's simply the system working the way it should. People who can't gain employment getting money to make a decent living.
 

Spectre

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You're talking about gaining citizenship, aren't you? That's a completely different situation then the one i was talking about.
No, that's 'anchor babies'. The program that gives you more money for more kids is "Aid to Families with Dependent Children" and is ruthlessly exploited.
 

Dr_Grip

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No, that's 'anchor babies'. The program that gives you more money for more kids is "Aid to Families with Dependent Children" and is ruthlessly exploited.
A quick google shows that the empirical data available is, at best, unclear. But most sources i can find that support your hypothesis have a clear conservative/libertarian bias and/or support questionable concepts like "dysgenic effect" (one could argue that sources supporting my pov have a liberal bias, i am aware of that).

The only real-world number i found was an average payment of $317 per month and family back in the early nineties. No way you can make a profit with that little money, no matter how bad you care for your child.
 

katwalk

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That's not making a profit. That's simply the system working the way it should. People who can't gain employment getting money to make a decent living.
Yes, in that case. The problem is it is totally random on if you deserve it or not. I have heard people not qualifying with severe autism and people getting on it for ADD. My dad was on it while holding a perfectly good paying regular job. He was totally insane yes, but he was functional for work and already making money from having a job.
 

Spectre

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A quick google shows that the empirical data available is, at best, unclear. But most sources i can find that support your hypothesis have a clear conservative/libertarian bias and/or support questionable concepts like "dysgenic effect" (one could argue that sources supporting my pov have a liberal bias, i am aware of that).

The only real-world number i found was an average payment of $317 per month and family back in the early nineties. No way you can make a profit with that little money, no matter how bad you care for your child.
Actually they can, as some LA Times reporters pointed out in the 90s. However, whether or not it's 'profit' is difficult to discern for various reasons - the fact that you do actually get more money for more kids is not in dispute by any source. It's in the AFDC benefits schedule.

Edit: It should also be pointed out that once the welfare children reach school age, breakfast and lunch are provided for free by the government, as are many other things needed for raising children. This frees up more funds for the parents to use on other things, should they so choose.
 
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Dr_Grip

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Actually they can, as some LA Times reporters pointed out in the 90s. However, whether or not it's 'profit' is difficult to discern for various reasons - the fact that you do actually get more money for more kids is not in dispute by any source. It's in the AFDC benefits schedule.
Of course, if you get a fixed amount of money per child, more kids mean more money. That's only logical. But it does not mean the system is exploitable by mass-producing babies. That would only be true if you get more money per kid then raising a kid costs (in average, over the whole sixteen-plus years you'll have to pay for every kid). But we are getting into hard political territory here. We should end this discussion cause i am off to bed soon, anyways and i don't think we'd reach an agreement even if we'd continue it over in the Political section.
 
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Hidden_Hunter

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That does not make your last post less ridiculous: The white trash/bogan/chav downward spiral of being too uneducated/stupid/poor for contraception, more offspring, more lost employability, less money, less opportunities to ever make it out of the slums...

Check your data. In no welfare system of the western world you can actually gain anything, money-wise, by producing more offspring.
in the long term I agree you wouldn't.


However we have things like the "baby bonus" which gives more money to new parents ($5000)- it has been shown countless times as having been abused. Which is on top of normal welfare for having kids

However that's a discussion for the political thread
 

Spectre

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Agreed. I was only pointing out that there are Western welfare systems where this does happen, not benefits/detractions thereof - which does actually belong in the political thread, not here.
 
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