Remote starter solenoid and push button start

[InfernalVortex]

So my car leaves me stranded today. But more than that, I'm also tired of my heatsoak issues. Chevrolet starters have the starter solenoid integrated into the starter unit and that puts it directly beside my header primaries as they come down. Due to the heat they are expeosed to, the car barely starts when its warm. The starter moves along like a 19th century 3 legged horse doped up on sleeping pills.

But if that wasnt bad enough, the car left me stranded today. So I'm at the parts store picking up half the lower control arm bushings I thought I ordered for double what nice aftermarket polyurethane ones cost (They've since been returned, I'm not going to wait ANOTHER week for more OEM stock replacement style rubber lower control arm bushings) and I go to leave, and the darn car wont start. I turn the switch and the entire universe convened and ensured that my car had no idea of what my intentions were at that particular moment. I attempted to will it into life, but unfortunately the car was oblivious to my powers of persuasion. I had to ask one of the guys at the parts store to help me push start my car, a bit embarassing.

My car is NOT a junk heap, it should NOT need to be push started everywhere. So I'm fed up. I got it home and it did the exact same thing. The ignition switch did absolutely nothing. Then two hours later, it works out of nowhere. This infuriates me even more because now I cant figure out where the problem is nor can I trust the car to take me anywhere if it's just going to randomly not start on me.

So as best as I can figure out, it's most likely the ignition switch, and from what I gather it's a pain to get to and expensive to replace with a new part, so I'm just going to go with a push button start and a remote starter solenoid. It'll get a bunch of my wires out from the unholy header primary hell along with the solenoid and I wont have to worry anymore about whether or not the car will start whether that be from heat or electrical gremlins.

According to these two diagrams....

If I run a wire from the + terminal on the solenoid to a momentary switch, and run the other side back to the S terminal on the remote solenoid, that should work.

I've now got two questions.

1. The starter circuit and the ignition (as in ignition coil) power are independent, correct? So if I turn the key to off with a push button start installed(assuming I bypass the current switch and I dont have a neutral safety switch anyway) it will still kill the engine, right? And if a thief has no key, there is still no ignition power, right? (Not that they couldnt get around that... but Im just sayin)

2. Those diagrams wire the coil up from different solenoids... Im going to assume it doesn't matter which solenoid I use to send power to the coil. Is that a safe assumption?

Or maybe I can just drill a hole into the front of the car and attach a big hand crank to the crankshaft damper. What do you guys think?

 

[Spectre]

I like the crank idea.

 

[EyeMWing]

1) Yes. Otherwise, your starter would be running all the time. If you don't want to take J. Random Internet's word for it, check your FSM.
2) Shouldn't matter.
3) If you install a handcrank, you will be my hero.

 

[argatoga]

I also think the hand crank idea is the way to go. Classy and functional.

 

[GRtak]

If you are using a GM style starter it will still need to use the solenoid on the starter. This is a heat soak problem not an electrical problem. Try correcting your heat problem by routing some fresh air onto the starter. All you need is some flexible heat resistant "hose" and fresh air. It should solve the problem and only cost a couple of bucks.

 

[boganbusman]

Or maybe . . . I dunno . . . a heat shield??

 

[InfernalVortex]

Or maybe . . . I dunno . . . a heat shield??

I've already got insulation around the starter and more around the header primaries... it's just not good enough. Just too much heat too close to it.

Plus I was willing to deal with it until the car refused to start today. I know it's that damn ignition switch. And if Im gonna start tearing into wiring to do this I may as well fix my heatsoak issue while Im at it.

If you are using a GM style starter it will still need to use the solenoid on the starter. This is a heat soak problem not an electrical problem. Try correcting your heat problem by routing some fresh air onto the starter. All you need is some flexible heat resistant "hose" and fresh air. It should solve the problem and only cost a couple of bucks.

A remote solenoid is the generally accepted proper way to fix the heatsoak problem. It IS an electrical problem because the relay in there gets too hot to switch power over to the starter, or at least it gets too hot to provide much juice to the starter. A solenoid is just a big heavy duty relay, or at least it is in this case. A solenoid is a device that turns electrical current into movement, and in this case waht it does is form a heavy duty connection between the positive battery cable and the starter motor. You bypass this solenoid entirely by connecting both lugs on it, and run it to a remote solenoid. It's basically a manual override that's constantly hotwired in with a remote relay, as its whole purpose is just to get an electrical connection to the starter motor.

Im not gonna say it will always cure this issue, but it's the cure most of the time. If that doesnt cure it then your problem wasnt heatsoak, or prolonged heatsoak in the solenoid has damaged the starter.

 

[GRtak]

A remote solenoid is the generally accepted proper way to fix the heatsoak problem. It IS an electrical problem because the relay in there gets too hot to switch power over to the starter, or at least it gets too hot to provide much juice to the starter.

Im not gonna say it will always cure this issue, but it's the cure most of the time. If that doesnt cure it then your problem wasnt heatsoak, or prolonged heatsoak in the solenoid has damaged the starter.

You say it yourself, it is a heat problem. So if you do as I said and get some cool air to the starter it should solve the problem. And yes, a heat sheild would be a nice thing too.

I do have experience fixing problems like this, and every time I see one "fixed" with the external solenoid it still has problems starting hot/warm.

 

[airmenair]

Header wrap!

 

[Nabster]

Header wrap!

No kidding, there's nothing between the starter and solenoid and the headers, that's just asking for exactly the problem you have. You need some sort of heat shielding there, and from the looks it won't be that hard, just jack it up or put it on a lift and wrap away. Don't know who thought doing it like that was a good idea, but it wasn't.

 

[Dogbert]

Header wrap!

Or ceramic headers!

 

[InfernalVortex]

No kidding, there's nothing between the starter and solenoid and the headers, that's just asking for exactly the problem you have. You need some sort of heat shielding there, and from the looks it won't be that hard, just jack it up or put it on a lift and wrap away. Don't know who thought doing it like that was a good idea, but it wasn't.

The headers ARE wrapped in that area and so is the starter solenoid. That picture was taken before I did that. It looks so ugly down there now that I didnt even bother taking pictures of it. It helped to the point where the car will actually start, it just has a hard time and does it slowly. Before it wouldn't do much at all. Sometimes it wont restart, but it usually will. Besides I've heard enough people say that their heatshields didnt make a difference that I never bothered with one.

You say it yourself, it is a heat problem. So if you do as I said and get some cool air to the starter it should solve the problem. And yes, a heat sheild would be a nice thing too.

I do have experience fixing problems like this, and every time I see one "fixed" with the external solenoid it still has problems starting hot/warm.

Everyone I know who's had a problem with this had it fixed by doing the remote solenoid. Also the remote solenoid is a much more professional fix than putting some tubing under the car to route air to the starter. There are several advantages to having a remote solenoid, and the starter gets plenty of airflow as it is. You're the first person I've ever heard say that it doesn't work. Im not saying you're wrong, but you're disagreeing with a lot of people who I personally know to be pretty well-informed. I've never done it before, and I dont like to talk out my ass like I know better until I've actually done it, so I'm curious to see what happens. I think it's worth a try though. It's cheaper than goingg for a new gear reduction starter.

Or ceramic headers!

When I win the lottery, I'm sending them to Jet Hot to get coated... mmmm

 

[Jay]

Sounds like you have a heatsoak problem, typical with an SBC with headers. How about a high torque starter? They are about half the size; that extra one inch may make a difference. The downside is that they are very expensive.

http://www.tciauto.com/Products/Starters/