Tesla 'accuse' Top Gear of being 'lying b'stards'

kurthest

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The day I am forced to drive an electric powered car is the day I commit suicide.
So I dont care about Tesla. In fact I hope they go bust and never again surface.
 

skylock

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The day I am forced to drive an electric powered car is the day I commit suicide.
So I dont care about Tesla. In fact I hope they go bust and never again surface.
I remember my dad saying he would never buy a car with air conditioning as long as he was able to roll a window down.

Just saying.
 

kurthest

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I remember my dad saying he would never buy a car with air conditioning as long as he was able to roll a window down.

Just saying.
Heh, then he obviously didnt understand the "conditioning" part of air conditioning :p

When it comes to electric cars, for me at least, they take away all pleasure of driving a car.
I could never imagine driving a car with an automatic gearbox either, because for me, having full control of what gear the engine needs at all times is very important.

Hopefully, they will start pumping up oil in the arctics soon. With the icecaps melting and all, maybe it'll be easier.
And other areas as well, I guess the oil found off the coast of eastern US will ultimately be opened when it needs to be to keep the flow of oil going.

Long live the petrol engine!
 

Gluben

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What pleasure is there in stalling? I have an automatic and it's very pleasurable.

Long live the petrol engine? Which has about 100 moving parts, is difficult to maintain and spews greenhouse gases out of the exhaust? I think progress slipped you by...
 

Cowboy

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Long live the petrol engine? Which has about 100 moving parts, is difficult to maintain and spews greenhouse gases out of the exhaust? I think progress slipped you by...
Think you got the wrong site here mate.......
 

waydee

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I'm fine with electric cars that are fun to drive - the Tesla Roadster looks to be a quick little thing, maybe doesn't handle so well but the idea is sound imo. Electric motors have a lot of torque from 0RPM, while i'd miss a manual transmission the fact is an electric motor just doesn't need it.

What I would miss is: the noise of internal combustion, the smells and the fact that IC engines have fascinated me from a young age - they're an amazing invention, I love working on them, driving them and knowing how each part does it's job to such great effect. Beautifully simple yet complex at the same time, an electric motor just doesn't feel like IC and that would be a huge thing to get used to.

It has to happen, I only hope that we'll be able to keep our IC cars for pleasure and move to electric vehicles for everyday use. I'm not too concerned about driving to the shops or work in an electric car as long as I can keep some noisy, turbocharged, thirsty toy for the weekends.
 

Gluben

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Think you got the wrong site here mate.......
Not really. I do like a good car, but I know that its days are numbered. I'm not particularly thrilled by the sound of an engine or its various parts, but I do like the look of a car and the feel of it. Nothing wrong with that. Oh, and I love Top Gear, so I think I'm on the right site "mate" (apologies, I just don't like people calling me mate when they've never met me. Yes, I'm picky and pedantic).
 

kurthest

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What pleasure is there in stalling? I have an automatic and it's very pleasurable.
Why would you stall?
Long live the petrol engine? Which has about 100 moving parts, is difficult to maintain and spews greenhouse gases out of the exhaust? I think progress slipped you by...
If only there was progress... Imho electric cars will never be widely used, it will be a niche car for evironmentally confused people :p
I dont care about the amount of CO2 coming out of the exhaust, the only thing I'm sure of is that my next car will release more of it then my current car.
 

waydee

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Why wouldn't electric cars become the norm?

If we're going to continue driving about in cars we're going to need to make most efficient use of the resources we have available to us. That means we could still burn coal and oil but the most efficient use of it is to produce electricity.

I'm no enviro-hippy but why would inefficiency be something desirable?
 

TC

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Electric motors have a lot of torque from 0RPM, while i'd miss a manual transmission the fact is an electric motor just doesn't need it.
Last I heard, they're working on putting a transmission in the new Tesla's. Just like a gas motor, the electric motor uses a lot more electricity (fuel) at higher RPM's. If they use a proper transmission, they can keep the revs low and increase the range. It would be incredibly odd driving a manual electric car though, since the engine makes no real noise, you'd have to pay extra attention to the tachometer.
 

Labcoatguy

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Last I heard, they're working on putting a transmission in the new Tesla's. Just like a gas motor, the electric motor uses a lot more electricity (fuel) at higher RPM's. If they use a proper transmission, they can keep the revs low and increase the range. It would be incredibly odd driving a manual electric car though, since the engine makes no real noise, you'd have to pay extra attention to the tachometer.
A continuously color-changing tachometer would be great here, in that you wouldn't have to pay attention to the sweep of the needle. Also, a CVT where you can manually adjust the ratio would be way better than a fixed-ratio manual, though for an electric motor it'd be pretty pointless. Is it too late to get back into auto engineering?
 

hrahn

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At the moment, I am driving a Volvo 850 T5 estate. It goes 240km/h (GPS-verified) when I want it to, can do about 800km on one fuel tank (fuel capacity 70litres, can get even better mileage when cruising on the Autobahn), has space for 5 adults and their luggage and - if there are no passengers - can fit a huge amount of stuff in the back.
When I drive to my family (750km) I can do so on one fuel tank. Refuelling after arrival takes mere minutes, this includes choosing the sort of sweets to put in the car for the trip home at the counter.
The car starts regardless of wheather conditions (try to use li-ion, i.e. Tesla batteries when temperatures fall below zero ?C - they don't like it at all) and it cost me only 4000 Euros to buy (used) and fix all little flaws it had.

So how on earth could an electric car be even remotely of interest to me? I only drive long distances, since I live in a city centre, I don't need the car over the week, I walk to work.

Plus, as far as I know, there is no environmently friendly way of making the batteries (yet) that are used in electric cars, so the production of one of these hurts the environment a great deal more than the production of a normal car.
And to top it all off, the electric car also emits greenhouse gases - a lot of them! Don't believe it? Well, where does your electricity come from? Chances are, that coal is involved in the equation. If it's nuclear material, the whole story gets even worse for the environment. Read a little about the long-term effects of storing nuclear waste created by power plants to get the idea.

Water, wind and sun cannot yet provide even remotely enough energy to power the needs of the people currently using electric appliances.
What do you think will happen, if everybody suddenly switched to an electric car? Plus: Accidents would skyrocket, you wouldn't hear the cars coming at lower speeds, kids and elderly people would be the ones to suffer most.

I have driven electric cars, even faster ones made for recreational purposes where things like practicality do not matter. I like the "instant power" you get from the motor, but there are too many problems to overcome - for now.

Until they've successfully coupled a hydrogen fuel cell with an electric motor in a normal car sold at a normal price, I don't think that fully electric drive will take off.
And, as BMW and others have proven, creating the liquid hydrogen can be quite pricey if done in small amounts, even more expensive than creating petrol.
Plus, I wonder how long the electric motors will last under heavy use, daily commutes with speeds upwards of 120kp/h. Combustion engines have no problems with that, even the little 3-cylinder Ecotec motors from Opel can withstand that kind of use for years without any problems.

Ask some model builders of high-performance RC car models about their experiences with burnt-out motors...
 
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thevictor390

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A continuously color-changing tachometer would be great here, in that you wouldn't have to pay attention to the sweep of the needle. Also, a CVT where you can manually adjust the ratio would be way better than a fixed-ratio manual, though for an electric motor it'd be pretty pointless. Is it too late to get back into auto engineering?
I've thought about that... a manual CVT would be kind of cool, if a bit confusing.
 

Elvis313

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What pleasure is there in stalling? I have an automatic and it's very pleasurable.

Long live the petrol engine? Which has about 100 moving parts, is difficult to maintain and spews greenhouse gases out of the exhaust? I think progress slipped you by...
epic *facepalm* on that one, mate
 

RedAero

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Why wouldn't electric cars become the norm?

If we're going to continue driving about in cars we're going to need to make most efficient use of the resources we have available to us. That means we could still burn coal and oil but the most efficient use of it is to produce electricity.

I'm no enviro-hippy but why would inefficiency be something desirable?
Simple: it's not environmentally friendly at all. Hell, a Land Rover is greener in the long run, because it only has 1 battery, and is made in 1 country, instead of hundreds of batteries, and thousands of miles "on the clock" before it even has any wheels.

Electric cars would be a step backwards in terms of practicality and usability, not to mention the environmental impact of all those batteries, which, actually couldn't even be produced in sufficient numbers, since there's so little Lithium and such on the planet. I've got no problems with an electric motor driving a vehicle, but batteries are not good for storing energy.

Also, there's no cause for alarm: the ICE will never die completely. If designed properly, it can be fueled with pretty much anything, from petroleum products to soy sauce to Chanel 5. Sure, it won't be widespread anymore, but there will always be something to put in that beautiful Ferrari V12.
 

Gluben

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epic *facepalm* on that one, mate
Urgh, how can a facepalm be "epic"? No wait, don't answer that, I can already see a giant picture of Jean Luc-Picard going up very quickly...

Why would you stall?

If only there was progress... Imho electric cars will never be widely used, it will be a niche car for evironmentally confused people :p
I dont care about the amount of CO2 coming out of the exhaust, the only thing I'm sure of is that my next car will release more of it then my current car.
You would stall if/when you were learning. I struggled with a manual when I learnt to drive, which was a big factor in getting an automatic when I passed. I'm not worried about "powerrrr" (Jeremy-style), more about simplicity. And electric cars do not have an exhaust at all, so that second part falls down. Granted, if produced via power plants, it still produces CO2, but it's still less than your current car, and when new, cleaner ways of producing energy are used, then it definitely will be much less.

I'm fine with electric cars that are fun to drive - the Tesla Roadster looks to be a quick little thing, maybe doesn't handle so well but the idea is sound imo. Electric motors have a lot of torque from 0RPM, while i'd miss a manual transmission the fact is an electric motor just doesn't need it.

What I would miss is: the noise of internal combustion, the smells and the fact that IC engines have fascinated me from a young age - they're an amazing invention, I love working on them, driving them and knowing how each part does it's job to such great effect. Beautifully simple yet complex at the same time, an electric motor just doesn't feel like IC and that would be a huge thing to get used to.

It has to happen, I only hope that we'll be able to keep our IC cars for pleasure and move to electric vehicles for everyday use. I'm not too concerned about driving to the shops or work in an electric car as long as I can keep some noisy, turbocharged, thirsty toy for the weekends.
I do miss the smells, admittedly, but not the noise too much, but I do agree with what you're saying. And yes, that approach would still be fine in the near future.

I'm sorry, but it is the only appropriate reaction when you discard manual trasmissions because of 'stalling'.
Very well, my apologies. But don't be sorry, you know you don't mean it! :p

At the moment, I am driving a Volvo 850 T5 estate. It goes 240km/h (GPS-verified) when I want it to, can do about 800km on one fuel tank (fuel capacity 70litres, can get even better mileage when cruising on the Autobahn), has space for 5 adults and their luggage and - if there are no passengers - can fit a huge amount of stuff in the back.
When I drive to my family (750km) I can do so on one fuel tank. Refuelling after arrival takes mere minutes, this includes choosing the sort of sweets to put in the car for the trip home at the counter.
The car starts regardless of wheather conditions (try to use li-ion, i.e. Tesla batteries when temperatures fall below zero ?C - they don't like it at all) and it cost me only 4000 Euros to buy (used) and fix all little flaws it had.

So how on earth could an electric car be even remotely of interest to me? I only drive long distances, since I live in a city centre, I don't need the car over the week, I walk to work.

Plus, as far as I know, there is no environmently friendly way of making the batteries (yet) that are used in electric cars, so the production of one of these hurts the environment a great deal more than the production of a normal car.
And to top it all off, the electric car also emits greenhouse gases - a lot of them! Don't believe it? Well, where does your electricity come from? Chances are, that coal is involved in the equation. If it's nuclear material, the whole story gets even worse for the environment. Read a little about the long-term effects of storing nuclear waste created by power plants to get the idea.

Water, wind and sun cannot yet provide even remotely enough energy to power the needs of the people currently using electric appliances.
What do you think will happen, if everybody suddenly switched to an electric car? Plus: Accidents would skyrocket, you wouldn't hear the cars coming at lower speeds, kids and elderly people would be the ones to suffer most.

I have driven electric cars, even faster ones made for recreational purposes where things like practicality do not matter. I like the "instant power" you get from the motor, but there are too many problems to overcome - for now.

Until they've successfully coupled a hydrogen fuel cell with an electric motor in a normal car sold at a normal price, I don't think that fully electric drive will take off.
And, as BMW and others have proven, creating the liquid hydrogen can be quite pricey if done in small amounts, even more expensive than creating petrol.
Plus, I wonder how long the electric motors will last under heavy use, daily commutes with speeds upwards of 120kp/h. Combustion engines have no problems with that, even the little 3-cylinder Ecotec motors from Opel can withstand that kind of use for years without any problems.

Ask some model builders of high-performance RC car models about their experiences with burnt-out motors...
Firstly, Tesla's argument, and indeed the argument in the film Who Killed the Electric Car?, is that the average motorist does not go on trips that long, and that the huge range acts as a safety net. If you live a long distance away, that's fine to have your current car, but when the range improves (and it is all the time), then it will be of more interest to you.

Secondly, battery technology is always improving and should not be dismissed outright. My earlier, lengthy blog/post was trying to treat electric cars as a positive step, not a negative one, as should all scientific progress.

Thirdly, yes, I'm well aware of where the greenhouse gases come from, aka the coal stations, and yes, I know that water, wind and sun cannot provide it equally at the moment. But again, the technology is improving, and you've completely dismissed geothermal power, which, if untapped, could be used to power the world very easily indeed, at least more so than solar and wind (it's available 24 hours a day, for a start).

Finally, accidents would not increase. You could easily hear an electric car approaching. They are not completely silent, for the electric motor emits a little "Whoosh!" noise, plus the car itself is still audible from a distance, at least in the videos I've seen (admittedly, I've yet to be near one, so this is a little unfounded).

Simple: it's not environmentally friendly at all. Hell, a Land Rover is greener in the long run, because it only has 1 battery, and is made in 1 country, instead of hundreds of batteries, and thousands of miles "on the clock" before it even has any wheels.

Electric cars would be a step backwards in terms of practicality and usability, not to mention the environmental impact of all those batteries, which, actually couldn't even be produced in sufficient numbers, since there's so little Lithium and such on the planet. I've got no problems with an electric motor driving a vehicle, but batteries are not good for storing energy.
And again, I mentioned the idea of wireless electricity eventually replacing the batteries in the future. No batteries, no added weight, unlimited range, instant power. A while off, yes, but it's promising. Technology isn't easy. I never said that electric cars were the best solution right now. They could well be in a few years is what I'm saying. But at least people are working on it, which is, in my mind, a good thing.
 

spicysaurus

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If it's nuclear material, the whole story gets even worse for the environment. Read a little about the long-term effects of storing nuclear waste created by power plants to get the idea.
This is simply wrong. Nuclear power is extremely efficient, clean, and safe. Cite me a credible source saying something different (and no, government does not count).

When an increase in nuclear power plants meets a better electric car, we're going to see a real change in the kinds of vehicles people drive. I don't give two shits about global warming, but I do care quite a bit about running out of non-renewable energy sources. I'd absolutely buy an electric car if the price was reasonable and it didn't have to charge all night just to get me to the corner store.
 
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