The "American Leyland" News Thread

argatoga

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I'm with Dogbert, this doesn't look bad. Yes GM will "force" you to keep the car for 30 days, they want you to keep it. After 30 days most people will probably be happy with their car.

If GM gets the car back they will want to sell it as new or near new. They can't have someone run it through the country for 4 gazillion miles and still be able to do that.
 

Spectre

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Why would I want GM to refund me for things not made by GM (aftermarket accessories) or paid for by GM (title and registration fees)? I bitch enough as it is about them spending too much money, so why would I want them giving people money back that wasn't spent at GM in the first place?
I guess you haven't been paying attention, but there's an awful lot of stuff made by GM and fitted by dealers to their cars that GM calls "aftermarket accessories". Which can mean a nasty surprise when you go to return the Suburban that you'd bought and the money you get back is several thousands less than you paid because GM won't pay for the "aftermarket" accessories. Even though they were made by GM, warranted by GM, and installed by a GM dealer.

And if you're so worried about that $200 limit, why don't you go to a body shop and have them go over the car? It's not like this is the first time ever that dealers have scrutinized the condition of a car... they've been doing it since, oh, they started accepting cars as used.
The problem with this (as the consumer advocacy groups rightfully point out) is that it is up to GM's discretion as to what, exactly, consists of $200 in damage. Not an impartial third party; it could even be that if you put wear on the tires, they'd call that "damage" and disqualify you.

Seem petty? Sure, but GM's done stupid crap like this before and shows no signs of having reformed. Which is the whole point.
 

watisdis

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GM kills Saturn after Penske ends deal

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Car dealership operator Penske Automotive Group announced on Wednesday that it has cancelled plans to acquire General Motors' Saturn unit. As a result, GM said it will wind down the brand and dealer network.

The announcement comes nearly four months after Penske agreed to buy the rights to the 19-year old brand from GM when the automaker was in bankruptcy.

As part of the deal, GM would have continued making Saturn's three highest-selling models: the Aura sedan, and the Vue and Outlook cross-over SUVs, for the rest of this year and next. Penske, an auto distributor but not a manufacturer, would have sold the cars for GM. In 2011, Penske said it would find another third-party manufacturer to make new Saturns.

But negotiations with another manufacturer fell through after an agreement was rejected by the unnamed manufacturer's board, according to Penske.

"Without that agreement, the company has determined that the risks and uncertainties related to the availability of future products prohibit the company from moving forward with this transaction," the company said in a statement.

As a result, GM said it would begin to wind down the brand and its roughly 350 dealerships nationwide.
and another one bites the proverbial dust...
 

Spectre

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Which means we can now start laughing at those idiot Saturn commercials where the Saturn guy claims to not understand why people are saying that American makers can't make cars people want to buy, and that Saturn makes cars people want to buy.

Surprise, dude, nobody wants your cars. :p
 

Labcoatguy

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Which means we can now start laughing at those idiot Saturn commercials where the Saturn guy claims to not understand why people are saying that American makers can't make cars people want to buy, and that Saturn makes cars people want to buy.

Surprise, dude, nobody wants your cars. :p
"Start"?
 

argatoga

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Shame as I was hoping Penske would be teaming up with a Euro brand to bring over some neat stuff via Saturn. All well. At least we still have SMART!
 

Cobol74

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I think it is a shame for the people who will lose their jobs - even if they were part of the trouble. New management and procedures could possibly have made a difference.
 

Spectre

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Here's that Saturn ad I was talking about. Thanks to airmenair for finding it.

[youtube]a0zQ87EVEOM[/youtube]

Here's a related one, entitled "We're Still Here".

[youtube]TTotkDAK2RY[/youtube]

Oh wait, no you're not still here. :D
 

tone76

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Looks like it WAS Renault, but the breakdown of talks may have something to do with Nissan. That, and Carlos Ghosn appears to be against the plan - perhaps he too could see Saturn-badged Renaults cannibalizing Nissan sales?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aMblPBWhb76s

Bloomberg.com said:
Oct. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Renault SA dropped plans to provide vehicles for General Motors Co.?s Saturn brand after talks with would-be buyer Penske Automotive Group Inc. broke down at the last minute, Chief Operating Officer Patrick Pelata said.

?We negotiated with them but we were unable to reach agreement at the end,? Pelata said in an interview today.

GM said yesterday it will close Saturn after Penske ended discussions to buy the brand, citing Renault?s decision to pull out of the vehicle-supply talks. In a statement, which didn?t mention Boulogne-Billancourt, France-based Renault by name, Penske blamed the proposed supplier?s board for rejecting an agreement it had reached with management.

Renault Chief Executive Officer Carlos Ghosn didn?t recommend approval of an agreement with Penske
at yesterday?s board meeting, Pelata said after a news conference in Paris. Ending the talks ?was not a board decision,? he added.

?The deal probably made a lot of sense to Renault at first glance,? Mike Tyndall, a London-based European autos specialist with Nomura Securities, said in a telephone interview. The proposal may have drawn objections from Nissan Motor Co., Renault?s 44 percent-owned Japanese affiliate, he said.

?When they looked into the details they probably realized it would do the Renault-Nissan alliance more harm than good,? Tyndall said. ?They?d be using potentially cheaper versions of alliance products to compete with Nissan in its most important market.?


Shares Drop

Penske fell as much as $3.23, or 17 percent, to $15.95 and was down 16 percent as of 1:10 p.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. The stock has more than doubled this year. Renault fell 21 cents, or 0.6 percent, to 31.66 euros in Paris trading, paring its advance this year to 71 percent and valuing the company at 9.02 billion euros ($13.1 billion).

Renault?s eight-member executive committee rejected the agreement yesterday before it went to the board, Frederique Le Greves, a company spokeswoman, said today. She declined to give any reasons for the decision.

Penske, which is based in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, said it dropped the Saturn purchase because it couldn?t be sure of finding another supplier to replace Renault after 2011, when GM would have stopped producing vehicles for the brand under the terms of their draft agreement.

Product, Currency Accords

?In our mind we had a detailed agreement early Wednesday including product content, foreign currency and production dates,? Penske Automotive President Rob Kurnick said in a telephone interview. Renault told Penske the deal was going to its board, executive committee and works council for final approval, Kurnick said.

Penske?s exit forces changes to GM?s post-bankruptcy plan to shed U.S. brands, which provided for the sale of the Saturn, Hummer and Saab units and the shutdown of Pontiac. The Detroit- based automaker said in June that the Saturn sale would save 13,000 jobs and 350 dealerships.

The brand?s disappearance may also create a public- relations headache, said analysts including Paul Melville of Grant Thornton LLP in Southfield, Michigan. GM?s assurances that warranties will be handled by other dealerships won?t completely appease concern among Saturn drivers, he said.

?No Plan B?

Penske probably could have found another company to supply vehicles, said Stephen Spivey, an auto analyst with Frost & Sullivan in San Antonio. ?I?m a little surprised that there was no plan B here.?

Saturn was created in 1985 amid a push by GM to slash structural costs, with a factory that operated outside the national United Auto Workers union agreement and a no-haggle pricing policy at dealerships. Deliveries peaked in 1994 at 286,003 vehicles.

Roger Penske, 72, who started his automotive career as a racer and Chevrolet dealer, holds interests including a truck- leasing business and the exclusive right to distribute Daimler AG?s two-seat Smart minicar in the U.S. He has won the Indianapolis 500 a record 15 times as car owner.
I suspect that Penske would come across the same roadblock with virtually any world-class automotive supplier with a presence in the US market, and those that don't have a current presence (such as PSA Peugeot Citroen) may wish to keep their powder try in case they want to try to crack the US market under their own brand. I'm sure if they looked harder, they could have sourced vehicles from Asia or Eastern Europe, but the quality and range probably wouldn't be there.
 
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Spectre

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Sounds about right - the word prior to this was that they would be attempting to get the vehicles via Samsung-Renault, which is the joint venture making Renaults and some Nissans in South Korea for domestic consumption there.
 

awdrifter

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LOL. Especially the second commercial where they guy said "we're still here".
 

Cobol74

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Renaults are miles better than they once were and the small ones are OK value and quality - I would not touch anything medium or big though myself.
 

Spectre

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Renault's last offerings in the US were not that great and are not fondly remembered.







And my personal 'favorite', the Fuego. Fuego means 'fire' in Spanish and the car was prophetically named, as it quite often spontaneously burst into flames due to its questionable wiring and electrics:

 

thevictor390

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I've always quite liked the Clio, wouldn't mind seeing a Saturn-badged one over here.
 

MacGuffin

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You can see all sorts of old cars (pre 1990) here: VW, Opel, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Audi and also some Japanese ones. My neighbour has a Golf II from 1985 and it is in mint condition. You even see some Mk I Golfs every now and then, not to mention some leftover Beetles or even Trabants!

But you hardly ever see any French or Italian cars that old. In fact, I cannot even remember the last time I saw an old Renault or Peugeot on the road. The original Pandas used to be everywhere. Now they're gone, completely gone. I guess our local cash for clunkers program has gotten rid of the last ones now.

But then again, French and Italian cars usually look really old after about 5 years already.
 
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AudiV6

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I've always quite liked the Clio, wouldn't mind seeing a Saturn-badged one over here.
No because Saturn belongs to GM, they only rebadge Opel's, but Renault has a coorporation with Nissan so theres hope for you.

The original Pandas used to be everywhere. Now they're gone, completely gone.
Thank God that they're gone, especially the awful pink and rusty Seat Mirabella's and the ones, with a big 25 Sign on the back, they really used to blocked up the road. <_<
 

argatoga

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You can see all sorts of old cars (pre 1990) here: VW, Opel, Ford, Mercedes, BMW, Audi and also some Japanese ones. My neighbour has a Golf II from 1985 and it is in mint condition. You even see some Mk I Golfs every now and then, not to mention some leftover Beetles or even Trabants!

But you hardly ever see any French or Italian cars that old. In fact, I cannot even remember the last time I saw an old Renault or Peugeot on the road. The original Pandas used to be everywhere. Now they're gone, completely gone. I guess our local cash for clunkers program has gotten rid of the last ones now.

But then again, French and Italian cars usually look really old after about 5 years already.
When I visited Italy most of the cars I saw were pretty new, except for the odd classic 500. Though I spent my time in Rome and Naples so I'm not sure about things in the country.
 
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