The General Motorbikers Discussion Thread

Handz

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I will agree, Ducati using timing belts is just plain stupid. Why do they do is when a chain is easy to design into the engine. Having to change a belt every 12K is so annoying. On the monster its not hard, but on the 4V sportbike Ducs, its annoying. Ducati really needs to get a chain on the engine instead of adding more electronic features.

On the note of valve adjustment, my WR250X had an adjustment at 24K. All the valves were in spec. Bike has 25K now and is running great. The R6 has almost 30K on the clock, and no valve adjustment yet. I am supposed to check the valves at 26K, but I am gonna wait till it gets closer to 36K before i do the check. People on the forums say they check valves at 38K and they are usually in spec.
 

shad_68

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Yes, the Ducati is a bit more expensive, but not by a ton. MSRP for the Ducati 696 is about $9,200 while the Yamaha is right around $7,000 - a bike geared towards first-time riders.
Not by a ton? That's more than 30% more for the Ducati. That's a pretty significant difference, especially in that price segment.

And the Yamaha is not just some cheapo entry level bike, it's been almost universally lauded as one of the best bikes on the market, to the point that MCN named it "overall machine of they year" in 2014, and German magazine Motorrad found it to be the best value for money on the market in 2014.
 
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Handz

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The FZ07 is an amazing bike. The Monster sound amazing and feels amazing, but I know the Yamaha would be better in almost every other category.
 

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No, my 700 doesn't need valve adjustments and revs to 10750. My 919 has the retuned CBR900RR motor which sadly does require valve lash adjustments. However, most of them it's just a check and not an actual adjustment. It's not a heavily stressed motor.

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A better question: Why would you ride a motorcycle that requires a cam belt change every 12K and desmodromic valve adjustments (two rockers per valve) every 6000-7500 when just about every one of the competing bikes don't have cam belts to change and have twice as long between valve inspections? More wrenching = less riding.
The 696 needs the timing belt tension checked at 7,500 miles, it needs changing every 15,000 miles (and we already established that's an easy job at home). Checking the valve clearances is also very quick on the Monster, remember that checking the tolerances doesn't mean you have to adjust it. The last time my VFR had the valves checked (which is much more involved than the Monster), everything was fine and nothing needed to be adjusted.

Really it comes down to this: What is the right bike for the rider? I'm all about reliability and low cost of ownership, but I'll be honest, for as good as the ST1300 is, it is just a tool. I like riding it, but I would not cry myself to sleep if it was run over by a cement mixer tomorrow. The only reason I bought that bike was because my knees hurt too much to ride the VFR800 on the long trips I wanted to do. All the people I ride with buy the bike that makes them happy. If reliability and low maintenance costs make you happy, then you've bought the right bike. For many, the Honda Nighthawk, 919, or VFR doesn't make them happy and they are willing to accept the maintenance of having a Ducati because it puts a smile on their face, looks great, and feels fantastic to ride. I can understand that, my VFR does that for me - the ST1300, not so much. The ST is a great machine in every objective measure, but I don't have an emotional connection to that bike the way I do to my VFR or the way Kiki does to her Monster. I can see how happy she is every time she talks about it, looks at it, rides it, and yes - even when we maintain it. That should be what riding is about, if you wanted to reduce decisions reliability and maintenance costs, we would all be driving beige Toyota Corollas.

One thing Ducati does understand, and I hate to say this, is passion. Their bikes ooze passion (and I really hope my friend doesn't see this, because I take the opposite position when talking to him), something not many Hondas can claim. Yes, the Honda is well engineered and well built, but there is that X-factor when I ride a Ducati that I just don't get from other bikes. Maybe that's worth something too.

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Not by a ton? That's more than 30% more for the Ducati. That's a pretty significant difference, especially in that price segment.

And the Yamaha is not just some cheapo entry level bike, it's been almost universally lauded as one of the best bikes on the market, to the point that MCN named it "overall machine of they year" in 2014, and German magazine Motorrad found it to be the best value for money on the market in 2014.
You can pick up a one year old Monster 696 for the exact same price if you look around. I'm not knocking the Yamaha, it's a great machine - no argument from me on that. Spectre was saying that the Monster had inferior performance numbers, so I picked a well-regarded bike in the same class for comparison. I was in no way trying to diminish the Yamaha.

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The FZ07 is an amazing bike. The Monster sound amazing and feels amazing, but I know the Yamaha would be better in almost every other category.
The Monster is more than just feel and sound. It is more powerful, lighter, and has bigger brakes. The Monster also has inverted forks, so there is less unsprung weight on the front end and better rigidity.
 

Der Stig

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That's the way it is for me with the VFR and the 919. I love my VFR. The 919 is just a great bike and a superior commuter.
 

Spectre

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One thing Ducati does understand, and I hate to say this, is passion.
Yes, a Ducati is full of passion and soul and OH GOD WHAT WENT WRONG NOW?!?!?!? :p

The thing about the Ducati, like so many Italian vehicles, is that they're engineered to do everything with such drama. Which is great if you want drama and something to excite you over and above just riding a motorcycle. Ultimately, though, you may realize that that drama is synthetic - fake, in other words - and you're really left with something that's actually an inferior product attempting to cover up its shortcomings with (surprise!) drama.

Once you realize what you're riding/driving is the mechanical equivalent of a high maintenance high school drama queen wearing wonder jeans and a pushup bra, they become a lot less interesting. Something that, for me, started with the failtacular Alfa Spyder I used to own and ended with my friend's 998.

If you want the Italian drama but with actual hardware that's not fail, go look at the Aprilia lineup. Seriously. A lot of the 919 guys looking for a larger ride are going with Tuonos, which while not anywhere quite as reliable as a 919 (or any given Honda) are at least built to standards similar to the rest of the Big Four. Still haven't had any reports of their Tuonos blowing up in a showstopping way.
 
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RdKetchup

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I never rode a Ducati, but I was lucky enough to test drive a Bimota DB6 Delirio on Italian roads in 2007.



The defining feature of that bike was the engine, the DUCATI 1000 DS (992 cc Ducati L-twin, 2 Desmodromic valves per cylinder, air cooled).

What a machine that was. If the Monsters feel anything like it, I understand people who fall in love with them enough to cope with the higher price, higher maintenance and lower reliability.


If you want the Italian drama but with actual hardware that's not fail, go look at the Aprilia lineup. Seriously. A lot of the 919 guys looking for a larger ride are going with Tuonos, which while not anywhere quite as reliable as a 919 are at least built to standards similar to the rest of the Big Four. Still haven't had any reports of their Tuonos blowing up in a showstopping way.
Funny, I know one guy who had a Tuono, and while he loved the way it rode, it was plagued with problems, and he put it up for sale within 2 or 3 years of ownership.
 
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Blind_Io

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See, for me the Aprilia is uninspiring. It's all the expense of an Italian bike but without the emotion I get from Ducati.

Really it comes down to this: What do you want in the riding experience? Everyone wants something a bit different and what works for you, Spectre, might not work for the next guy. That's why there are so many different bikes, if your way was the only way then everyone except Honda would be out of business. For some people that "drama" is exactly what they want in a motorcycle, others may want something different.

You keep using your yardstick to measure other people's choices, but what you are missing is that the things you value might not be the same as what they value. You are logical and like quantifiable metrics, other people are about the subjective experience. Sure, maybe you were like that and changed your mind at some point - maybe they will too, but that's something they have to come to on their own or it's not really their journey of experience anymore, nothing will be learned and no experience gained. And who knows, maybe that person will be a lifelong Ducati fan, loving every bike they own in spite of its faults and quirks - and maybe that will make them happy.

The point is that no one can tell another what subjective experience they will have - in life or in riding. The SV650 is, by almost any measure, a fantastic first or second motorcycle - but the experience of riding it was not what my wife wanted in a bike. She never connected to the Suzuki, never loved it, and as a result she started riding less and less. Selling that bike to buy the 696 was the single best decision we made about motorcycles, she immediately loved the Monster and now finds any excuse to ride - rain or shine. Hell, she's more dedicated to taking her bike than I am. On paper the Suzuki is more reliable, cheaper, and in the same class as the Monster - it even has a similar engine configuration. So which is the "better" bike? It depends on who you ask, I say it's the bike that makes you happy, that makes you want to ride, the one that you can't help look over your shoulder at as you walk away -- and that bike is different for each rider.
 
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Handz

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I have ridden a 796 Monster. Vibrates like hell, takes forever to warm up, and zero storage.....
 

Blind_Io

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That was replaced by the Monster 821 last year. And no one buys a Monster for the storage, you might as well judge a Jeep Wrangler Rubicon by how well it handles a race track.
 

jasonof2000

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Since I can't have a "real" motorcycle I'm going to ride the Ruckus on occasion. Like this morning's commute, all 3 miles!

Congrats on the Ruckus, it is such a funky little scooter. The owners love them and have a lot of fun with them.

Stop being a baby, and be a man. Go buy a bike. Tell the wife to go make a sandwich.
You really are an unfunny dick who is toxic and brings nothing to this thread.

Go fuck yourself.
 

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Really it comes down to this: What do you want in the riding experience? Everyone wants something a bit different and what works for you, Spectre, might not work for the next guy. That's why there are so many different bikes, if your way was the only way then everyone except Honda would be out of business. For some people that "drama" is exactly what they want in a motorcycle, others may want something different.

You keep using your yardstick to measure other people's choices, but what you are missing is that the things you value might not be the same as what they value. You are logical and like quantifiable metrics, other people are about the subjective experience. Sure, maybe you were like that and changed your mind at some point - maybe they will too, but that's something they have to come to on their own or it's not really their journey of experience anymore, nothing will be learned and no experience gained. And who knows, maybe that person will be a lifelong Ducati fan, loving every bike they own in spite of its faults and quirks - and maybe that will make them happy.
This.

I own two VERY different types of motorcycles.



Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both have their uses, but either one can put a smile on my face. And isn't that what riding a bike is about?
 
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Handz

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Its not what type of motorcycle you ride, its just about feeling the freedom on 2 wheels.

I get the same good feeling on a 125cc scooter and my R6. 2 Wheel freedom .
 

Blind_Io

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^ Remember this the next time you talk about how you will only ride larger bikes and talk shit about small displacement motorcycles.

It gives me pleasure inside knowing you are crying over someone on the internet.
Being a misogynist doesn't make you any more of a man. Stop acting like a petulant child; this a community, not a boy's club. Someday you might actually grow a pair and realize that dehumanizing and belittling others only alienates and isolates you. I honestly don't know why you come to this forum, your posts are borderline nonsensical and demonstrate a profoundly substandard skill in literacy. Most your posts have all the depth and content of your average Twitter account; you seem to lack the ability to form a coherent thought that is longer than a couple sentences.

I will give you this, for all the time and effort you put into waxing, polishing, and cleaning, I think you have everything it takes to be an excellent middle-school janitor. It would be the perfect job for you, surrounded by a group consisting of at least 30% your intellectual equals.
 
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Handz

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^ Remember this the next time you talk about how you will only ride larger bikes and talk shit about small displacement motorcycles.



Being a misogynist doesn't make you any more of a man. Stop acting like a petulant child; this a community, not a boy's club. Someday you might actually grow a pair and realize that dehumanizing and belittling others only alienates and isolates you. I honestly don't know why you come to this forum, your posts are borderline nonsensical and demonstrate a profoundly substandard skill in literacy. Most your posts have all the depth and content of your average Twitter account; you seem to lack the ability to form a coherent thought that is longer than a couple sentences.

I will give you this, for all the time and effort you put into waxing, polishing, and cleaning, I think you have everything it takes to be an excellent middle-school janitor. It would be the perfect job for you, surrounded by a group consisting of at least 30% your intellectual equals.
What makes me laugh inside is that you wrote all that for me and i never read any of it....just quoted and posted this comment just to make you feel useless.....almost as useless as a Ducati Monster timing belt.
 

Blind_Io

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I guess the words were too big for you. I can only explain this to you (sorry, crayons don't work over the internet), I can't understand it for you.
 

Handz

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Yeah, i am too dumb to understand your hate....because you are old, bitter, and jealous that I am young and can ride an R6 without my belly hanging over.
 
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