The Gun thread

Aston Martin

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Sorry for the double-post but this is completely unrelated to the above.

Comrades, I am ready to take the fight to the German and protect the Motherland with my new 1942 Mosin! ...right after I get all the damn cosmoline off of it, that is. The history of this thing amazes me. Entered service in 1891 and is still used in some countries. That's 122 years of military service and counting. Used in over 30 wars by 44 countries, including China, Japan, Israel, the UK, the USA, and obviously USSR/Russia. Over 37mil made. Ridiculous.

I was watching Top Guns, and the Mosin was featured in the first episode. The experts hated it, mainly because you couldn't rapidly shoot a guy running towards you... :|
 

Spectre

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Colt's match rifle contractor is pulling the eject handle on Oregon and coming to North Texas. This may presage Colt themselves moving - video at link: http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/04/05/firearms-company-relocating-to-north-texas/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

BRECKENRIDGE (CBS 11 NEWS) ? A firearms company that makes AR-15 style rifles for the iconic brand Colt, will open a plant in Breckenridge in Stephens County. Oregon company Bold Ideas confirmed the development Friday.

Bold Ideas goes by the name Colt Competition, making high accuracy rifles for competition shooting.

The company has not officially announced the opening, but employment applications are already available at the Breckenridge Chamber of Commerce. A non-specific, help wanted ad appeared in the local newspaper classifieds earlier in the week.

Sources say Colt Competition will move into a large vacant industrial space on the north side of town, previously used by Karsten Homes to manufacture mobile homes.

The move by Colt Competition into Breckenridge comes as the CEO of Colt Manufacturing in Connecticut has said there will soon be few good answers to keep his company in the state. Connecticut passed some of the nation?s most restrictive gun laws this week.

It also comes weeks after Governor Rick Perry reportedly sent letters to gun companies, encouraging them to move to Texas. Perry sent a message on Twitter to Colorado company Magpul as recently as March 21, saying ?Come on Down to Texas.? The Governor?s office did not confirm Friday if it had sent a recruitment letter to Colt Competition.

Rumors swirled for weeks in Breckenridge that a major gun company was coming. Butch Spencer, who owns E-Z Pawn and Gun, said he figured when he heard the name Colt referenced that someone had just made a mistake.

?I?m tickled to see em get something like that,? he said. ?I think that?d be a lot better than a mobile home factory.?

Custom gun and ammunition manufacturer Jim Mitchell said the move has the potential to draw more companies to the state, with a political climate that?s friendly to firearms.

?We?re in line to help em, and do the best we can, and they?ll be of great benefit to the community,? he said. ?We?ve already got people going, hey I?m moving to Breckenridge.?
 

Blind_Io

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I was watching Top Guns, and the Mosin was featured in the first episode. The experts hated it, mainly because you couldn't rapidly shoot a guy running towards you... :|
But with 7.62x54 you can shoot 6 deep into a charge.
 

Spectre

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PTR of Connecticut just pulled the eject handle and is moving. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GUN_INDUSTRY_CONNECTICUT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-04-10-18-09-24

They haven't said where, but they're going. PTR is significant because they're the only US maker of H&K roller-system rifles. Here's their post: http://ptr91.com/news/ptr-to-move-from-connecticut/

PTR to Move from Connecticut
Posted on April 9, 2013

April 9, 2013
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A STATEMENT CONCERNING MANUFACTURING ENCOURAGEMENT, ECONOMIC GROWTH, AND PROTECTION OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF CITIZENS.
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This past week an historic and highly controversial bill was passed by the State of Connecticut which will have far reaching consequences to the state, its citizens, and businesses. The bill we refer to is Bill No. 1160, AN ACT CONCERNING GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION AND CHILDRENS SAFETY. This bill purports to reduce gun violence by banning hardware responsible for less than 3% of homicides in 2011 ; and claims to increase children?s safety by restricting the ability of those most responsible for it ? their parents ? to defend them.
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As a firearms manufacturing firm, our industrial roots reach deep in the State of CT. Along with other companies in the trade, we were deeply apprehensive at the hurried process to develop new gun laws and fearful that it would generate unintended consequences for our industry. On Thursday April 4th 2013, upon reading the full text of Bill 1160, our worst fears were confirmed. What emerged was a bill fraught with ambiguous definitions, insufficient considerations for the trade, conflicting mandates, and disastrous consequences for the fundamental rights of the people of CT.
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The magnitude of the constitutional and economic importance of this bill is such that the disregard for public input (in the final version), and the haphazard production of the legislation should be insulting to any citizen or business in CT. It should be a shock to us all that such landmark legislation could be written in one week, and seen by no one (including the rank-and-file legislators) prior to its emergency certification. Having been present in the deliberations in both legislative chambers, it was clear that a majority of our legislators had not even read the bill ? and those that had read it had only a cursory understanding.
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The process with which this legislation proceeded, along with the language that resulted gives us no confidence that this will be the last violation of our rights in our beloved home state, and we only hope that this does not set a precedent at a national level.
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The rights of the citizens of CT have been trampled upon. The safety of its children is at best questionably improved from the day of the tragedy that triggered the events that lead us here. Finally, due to an improperly drafted bill, manufacturing of modern sporting rifles in the State of CT has been effectively outlawed. With a heavy heart but a clear mind, we have been forced to decide that our business can no longer survive in Connecticut ? the former Constitution state.
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Furthermore, we feel that our industry as a whole will continue to be threatened so long as it remains in a state where its elected leaders have no regard for the rights of those who produce and manufacture its wealth. We are making a call to all involved in our industry to leave this state, close your doors and show our politicians the true consequences of their hasty and uninformed actions. We encourage those in our industry to abandon this state as its leaders have abandoned the proud heritage that forged our freedom.
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Although PTR has not decided upon a specific relocation site at this time, over the coming weeks the company will be actively considering offers from states that are friendly to the industry. We hope to have a site identified within the next six weeks, and hope to have our move completed by the end of this year. We plan to keep our business partners informed on the status of our move throughout this process in order to affect a smooth transition.
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We have extended the invitation to join us in the move to all of our employees, as well as all of our vendors. We are pleased to say that we currently have commitments to move from a majority of our employees, which includes ALL of our management personnel, engineering staff and skilled gunsmiths.
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It is our hope and sincere belief that this move will represent a step forward for the company; and that by bringing our expertise and core personnel to combine with the business friendly policies, and a motivated local labor force from a state that respects industry and the second amendment that we can expand our operations and not only maintain ? but increase the quality and reputation of our products.
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Please direct any questions or inquiries to John McNamara, Vice President of Sales, at john@ptr91.com or at our main phone number.
Remington will not be leaving NY - the US government just gave them an $80 mil contract over 10 years and apparently one of the conditions is that they stay in NY. We'll see how well that works out for Remington when they start losing civvie sales.
 
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Blind_Io

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I know that I will not be buying from Remington while they are in NY.
 

Spectre

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You really think it's worthwhile for Remington to pack up and move while also violating an $80 million federal contract?
They can make the contract rifles in another state. Magpul is doing that right now - they're complying with contracts and moving states. Hint: Rifles aren't all that hard to make.

I would also point out that the US civilian arms market dwarfs this contract. I'm sure there's a bunch of companies who will be getting orders for hunting rifles later this year that will be happy Remington shot themselves in the foot.

Don't believe me? Check out what happened to Smith and Wesson when they pulled a similar trick in the 90s. They still have not recovered.
 
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Spectre

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Store clerk gives up money; gets shot anyways.

Too damn bad the clerk didn't have a CCW... Reminds me of this:
Contrast that with this:
Robber shot dead by would-be victim outside Ft. Worth store (Video at link.)

A would-be robber was shot dead by a person with a concealed handgun license outside a Metro PCS store in the 7400 block of Wichita St. in Ft. Worth on Tuesday afternoon.

Investigators say Desmond Paige, 20, tried to rob a man using Craigslist. The would-be victim brought his gun to the sale just in case.

The man with the CHL was shot in the arm and the hand by the robber, but Paige was shot multiple times in the chest.

Paige died at the scene.

"When I got over to him I saw that he was bleeding out of his mouth and his chest. So I kneeled down next to him just to say you know hey I'm here you know, hold on. The ambulance and police are coming," said one witness.

Paige claimed on Cragslist he had a cell phone to sell. Police said when Paige tried to rob the man, the man pulled his gun and shot Paige several times.

Paige was recently released from prison after serving time for a violent crime and was on parole.
I'll edit this later and add some more commentary.
 

Redliner

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For years, the police and the Government have been telling people that guns kill children, widen the ozone layer hole, deplete oil reserves etc. and that you should just give what the robber wants.

Well, robbers learned that if they kill their victim or not, the time served is practically the same, so they just kill and take what they want. Much easier and faster.So cute.
 

Blind_Io

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And they don't leave a witness to testify against them, help the police with a description, etc.

I really hope that, as a nation, we are starting to realize that even with all the security, snooping, cameras, and other "security" measures in place, that our government cannot protect us from harm. As soon as we realize this is a reality we will start rejecting these invasions of our privacy and rights.
 
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prizrak

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And they don't leave a witness to testify against them, help the police with a description, etc.

I really hope that, as a nation, we are starting to realize that even with all the security, snooping, cameras, and other "security" measures in place, that our government cannot protect us from harm. As soon as we realize this is a reality we will start rejecting these invasions of our privacy and rights.
Not going to happen, from what I see we are moving more and more towards the British model. The majority of people I encounter in my daily life are more than happy to give up their freedoms for the illusion of safety. I had a guy tell me that it wasn't idiotic for the NYPD to require that you provide a record of every single "offense" including speeding tickets to apply for a permit. His response was "can't be too careful, speeding might mean you are danger prone so giving you a weapon is a bad idea" but a car is ok apparently...
 

LeVeL

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It's been a crappy month and an even crappier week and an even crappier day. I don't feel like going to bed so I'm sitting here with my big martini (ie martini mixed in a regular glass) and browsing aimlessly when I come across a reference to the movie Rampage. I'm in the process of watching it and, without spoiling a whole lot, it got me thinking about body armor. Not about getting body armor (duh), but more about defending oneself against a BG wearing body armor. Unlikely, I know, but so is a couple of terrorists blowing up pressure cookers down the street... But I digress.

I started wondering if a .357 Magnum round (yes, I realize there are different loads and bullet types) would be able to take down some wanker clad in armor (yes, I also know there are different types of body armor.) Found this link to be quite interesting. Figured I'd get some opinions on here - you guys seem to be more reasonable than the e-thug keyboard commandos on most gun forums. I figure FMJ would be better than HP/JHP... and you can get some pretty heavy loads these days, especially if its your own reload. Thoughts?
 

Spectre

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It's been a crappy month and an even crappier week and an even crappier day. I don't feel like going to bed so I'm sitting here with my big martini (ie martini mixed in a regular glass) and browsing aimlessly when I come across a reference to the movie Rampage. I'm in the process of watching it and, without spoiling a whole lot, it got me thinking about body armor. Not about getting body armor (duh), but more about defending oneself against a BG wearing body armor. Unlikely, I know, but so is a couple of terrorists blowing up pressure cookers down the street... But I digress.

I started wondering if a .357 Magnum round (yes, I realize there are different loads and bullet types) would be able to take down some wanker clad in armor (yes, I also know there are different types of body armor.) Found this link to be quite interesting. Figured I'd get some opinions on here - you guys seem to be more reasonable than the e-thug keyboard commandos on most gun forums. I figure FMJ would be better than HP/JHP... and you can get some pretty heavy loads these days, especially if its your own reload. Thoughts?
The Box O Truth guys shoot at one of my local ranges, FYI. :D

Criminal thugs appearing in body armor is rare, but becoming more common. It's already a common sight in Mexico and it is creeping across the border. Armor thefts are on the rise, too.

Sadly, most .357 loads (no, not even hard cast) will not penetrate common body armor levels. It will, however, give the wearer a significant kinetic hit and they will likely be at least briefly incapacitated by the impact even if there is no penetration.

However, some may not be (witness the guy who got hit with 16 rounds of .45 and kept going without armor), which is where Failure To Stop drills come in. The faceplate that can withstand .357 FMJ rounds is rather rare and most people won't wear it because it weighs a lot - and even if you don't penetrate, you will still ring their bell and they will be out of it.

Bottom line is that with only a couple of exceptions, commercial and most home-load handgun rounds will not render armored assailants hors de combat with any reliability. There's just not enough power there.
 
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Blind_Io

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It's been a crappy month and an even crappier week and an even crappier day. I don't feel like going to bed so I'm sitting here with my big martini (ie martini mixed in a regular glass) and browsing aimlessly when I come across a reference to the movie Rampage. I'm in the process of watching it and, without spoiling a whole lot, it got me thinking about body armor. Not about getting body armor (duh), but more about defending oneself against a BG wearing body armor. Unlikely, I know, but so is a couple of terrorists blowing up pressure cookers down the street... But I digress.

I started wondering if a .357 Magnum round (yes, I realize there are different loads and bullet types) would be able to take down some wanker clad in armor (yes, I also know there are different types of body armor.) Found this link to be quite interesting. Figured I'd get some opinions on here - you guys seem to be more reasonable than the e-thug keyboard commandos on most gun forums. I figure FMJ would be better than HP/JHP... and you can get some pretty heavy loads these days, especially if its your own reload. Thoughts?
One of my local gun shops does sell body armor, and a .357 would hardly tickle it. The vests in the shop will shrug off multiple hits from a .308 rifle and are made from a rubber coated armor plate backed with several layers of non-newtonian memory foam. Even a thin (2 mm or so) layer of foam was enough to protect a guy's cell phone from being smashed with a hammer. I honestly doubt any pistol round would even be noticed by someone wearing that stuff.

Lighter-weight armor that doesn't use plates is less resistant and will transfer more energy into the wearer.
 
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LeVeL

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Just found out that a range north of Boston has a rule stating that you can only load 5 rounds max into a pistol. The same rule that applied to revolvers was just lifted. Weird.
 

Quiky

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Just found out that a range north of Boston has a rule stating that you can only load 5 rounds max into a pistol. The same rule that applied to revolvers was just lifted. Weird.
Stupid new-englanders.
 

Spectre

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HiViz pulls the eject handle on Colorado:

HiViz Shooting Systems, a gun-parts manufacturer in Fort Collins, Colo., will move its operations up the road to Laramie, Wyo., making good on its threat to pull up its Colorado roots after Gov. John Hickenlooper signed into law several controversial gun control measures earlier this year.

Of the businesses planning to leave the state for the same reason, HiViz is the first to announce its new home.

?The decision to relocate the company was difficult, and choosing the proper location was essential to our continued growth within the industry,? said president and CEO Phillip Howe in a press release. ?We look forward to settling into our new home in the firearm friendly state of Wyoming.?

Wyoming was chosen not just for its gun-friendly atmosphere, but also its tax advantages and because Laramie is less than an hour from its current location, allowing existing employees the option of commuting.

Construction on HiViz?s new headquarters is expected to start operations this summer.

The most high profile of the companies defecting from Colorado is Magpul Industries, which makes 30-round rifle magazines in small-town Erie, Colo.

One of the bills Hickenlooper signed bans magazines that hold more than 15 rounds of ammunition. The new law goes into effect July 1.

Magpul is expected to announce the location of its new headquarters after the National Rifle Association meeting this weekend in Houston. Wherever its new home, it?s already in operation: The company wrote on its Facebook page this week that gun sights and standard 30-round magazines (called PMAGs) are now being manufactured outside Colorado for the first time.

Magpul employs about 200 people and has been courted by Texas, Wyoming, South Carolina and Utah, to name just a few states eager for its business. Texas Gov. Rick Perry even made a personal appeal to the company.
 
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