The 'I don't like Tesla' Thread

prizrak

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Hypocrite much? If you can respond for soebody else, so can I.
I can clarify someone's point when I *think* I know what they are driving at, in his case he responded to an entire post by CrzRsn, it is literally not possible to know which part he is agreeing with. Since there was more than one point raised in the post.
 

GRtak

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If you read the words, you can infer what part he is referring to. So I am doing exactly what you claim is okay for you to do.
 

prizrak

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If you read the words, you can infer what part he is referring to. So I am doing exactly what you claim is okay for you to do.
No you are taking a shot in the dark and nothing more. Also you are being declarative instead of deductive, instead of saying "I *think* he is saying X' you are saying "He is saying X" I tend to use the former unless I 100% know what the person is trying to say (through an off forum discussion usually)

You seem to be rather bad at inferring as the first thing that bone says is "I agree with that" in response to a post that said nothing about CrzRsn's friend and all about charging times...
 
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GRtak

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I wonder how much of that is part of the PG&E forest fire power shutdown knocking out power to peoples' homes and therefore chargers and how much of that is just people who don't want to pay the power bill and waiting for their free turn at the supercharger. If its the former, than its no different than natural disasters causing fuel shortages at conventional gas stations.

Not saying most people are cheap bastards, but I do know they're out there. A friend of mine has a Model X, and he WILL NOT charge it at home. He will only charge it where he can get free power. Even when going out with friends, he will drive 20 minutes out of everyone's way to a place where he can plug in for free, then have someone else in the group drive him to the actual destination everyone is going to.... which really defeats the point if you're forcing someone to drive their ICE car a bunch more because you need to be driven to/from your electric car.
i agree with that.
i don't know a single person with an EV car that doesn't just charge at home
people who solely rely on SC are stupid

@Prizak there are the posts. I am pretty certain of what he was commenting on.

Do you need a diagram to point out what is going on in them?

Now, either get over whatever is pissing you off, or live up to your own standards.
 

LeVeL

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This whole argument boils down to the same problem that people have had with electric cars all along - it sucks having to wait so long to charge up the car when you're on a long drive.
 

DanRoM

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Nothing Tesla-specific then - if anything, Tesla does it better than most other BEV producers.

But it's also a mostly moot point. Long drives emptying the batteries without the opportunity to make a decent break during which you can charge your car are a rare edge case.
 

CrzRsn

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But it's also a mostly moot point. Long drives emptying the batteries without the opportunity to make a decent break during which you can charge your car are a rare edge case.
Keep in mind the US is way more spread out than Europe. People here do much longer drives for the most part.
 
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CrzRsn

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I am aware. But more than 400 km in one go? Regularly? Pressed for time?
Long haul truckers don't count. ;)
Considering that's just 250 miles, yes. Especially in the summer. And I'm not even talking about myself and my biannual Detroit-Boston trips. Can't get to Chicago, Buffalo or the UP from here in that range.

A bit old, but I would imagine the number has only increased https://newsroom.aaa.com/2012/12/more-than-one-in-four-americans-to-take-a-road-trip-this-holiday-season-aaa/

And sure, when you're on vacation, you're generally not "pressed for time", but usually when you only have 2ish weeks of vacation per year, and only take one trip per year as many Americans do, you generally want to spend as much time as possible at your destination and as little time as possible driving. Adding 1.5 hours (assuming there are enough supercharges to have 0 wait) over a 760 mile drive is fairly significant and could be the tipping point between a one day drive and a two day drive, which translates that much less time actually on vacation.

And I'm not saying that gas cars are perfect either. I have definitely come across a crazy wait for gas on one of my trips a few years ago. Pulled up to the rest area to see about 7-10 cars waiting for every lane (12 lanes, 2 pumps per lane). Certainly lost more time than planned but even then, I managed to get gas in 20 minutes after all the cars infront of me also filled up. But that was an anomaly I've only seen once. No weather, no construction, not a holiday weekend so no major travel upticks, so I have no idea why it was so busy that one day.
 
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prizrak

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@Prizak there are the posts. I am pretty certain of what he was commenting on.

Do you need a diagram to point out what is going on in them?

Now, either get over whatever is pissing you off, or live up to your own standards.
I think you are the one who needs a diagram or maybe new glasses... Here is the post in question

1575418570372.png

I’m fairly certain you aren’t new to the internet so you must be vaguely aware that comments under a quotes post generally are understood to be referring to the quoted post.
 

prizrak

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I am aware. But more than 400 km in one go? Regularly? Pressed for time?
Long haul truckers don't count. ;)
I don’t need to be pressed for time to not want to waste that time not driving. I used to go to uni 6 hours (roughly 450ish miles) away. That would be a 7 hour drive in a Tesla, that’s a 17% increase in travel time.
 

bone

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And sure, when you're on vacation, you're generally not "pressed for time", but usually when you only have 2ish weeks of vacation per year, and only take one trip per year as many Americans do, you generally want to spend as much time as possible at your destination and as little time as possible driving. Adding 1.5 hours (assuming there are enough supercharges to have 0 wait) over a 760 mile drive is fairly significant and could be the tipping point between a one day drive and a two day drive, which translates that much less time actually on vacation.
so just rent an ice car for those 2ish weeks a year
 

Spectre

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so just rent an ice car for those 2ish weeks a year
There are quite a few people in the US that have rather long commutes, especially with the increasing popularity of living in a more rural area for various benefits. I know someone who lives just a bit south of Dallas and commutes to Austin for work, 160 or so miles each way. When I lived in Southern California, I had an 80 mile (each way) daily commute at one point. Add in that a lot of this driving was done in parking lot/bumper to bumper traffic with the air conditioning on full blast (which drains battery at an increased rate) and you're looking at daily chargeups in the 'affordable' Tesla Model 3 at a minimum.

As for how many... remember that the average US national commute numbers are skewed by the vast numbers of people in dense East Coast cities that live within strolling distance of their employment or that take public transit a short distance. If you look at the average commute distance *by state* for those that are driving, you will see some very interesting numbers:





Keep in mind that "home or business fast charging" is not a thing for most Americans whether they want it or not - either because they can't charge due to on-street parking or because their home/office does not have 230/240V in an area that can be reasonably used to fit a charger. Our common wall current here is 110/115/125V and the vast supermajority of accessible outlets (and therefore the electrical service behind them) are that voltage.

According to reports, on standard US wall current a Model 3 will get about 5 miles of range for every hour you charge it. That means that assuming you work a full day, don't drive it at lunchtime and leave after an 8 hour work + 1 hour lunch day, you will have gotten back... 45 miles. 45 miles won't get you halfway across the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex the long way.

As for fueling time - In the last three days, I've filled up my 4Runner (~16 gal, ~61L) and thomas' Cadillac Fleetwood (23 gallons, ~87L). In neither case did it take more than five or six minutes to start fueling, check vehicle fluids, make a logbook note (as applicable), do a walkaround, disconnect the fuel hose, reset the trip meter and leave. Stretching that out to 20-30 minutes? Yeah, not going to happen.

I do note that Tesla's Model 3 don't seem to be flying into people's driveways of late around here, after an initial surge. Not a lot of them running around on temp ('I'm a new car!') tags any more. I guess they're selling the 3s in California or something.

Interesting reading from a couple months ago - Tesla's likely losing money on every Model 3 they sell: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/070116/tesla-losing-money-each-time-it-sells-car-tsla.asp
 

prizrak

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a lot of this driving was done in parking lot/bumper to bumper traffic with the air conditioning on full blast (which drains battery at an increased rate)
I think @narf ran the numbers on this a couple of years ago and it actually isn’t as bad as you think. IIRC the main reason is that when you aren’t moving there is no “idling” in an EV so all it does is run A/C
 

Spectre

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I think @narf ran the numbers on this a couple of years ago and it actually isn’t as bad as you think. IIRC the main reason is that when you aren’t moving there is no “idling” in an EV so all it does is run A/C
Running heat or AC while idling/stopped in traffic is still using electrical power while the car isn't actually going anywhere. It's still going to drain *some* power and you will have less battery remaining than you would had you been able to drive straight to the destination, and you don't have any passive cooling assists like the wind over the moving vehicle, etc.
 
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