The 'I don't like Tesla' Thread

prizrak

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According to reports, on standard US wall current a Model 3 will get about 5 miles of range for every hour you charge it. That means that assuming you work a full day, don't drive it at lunchtime and leave after an 8 hour work + 1 hour lunch day, you will have gotten back... 45 miles. 45 miles won't get you halfway across the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex the long way.
I forgot to address this but it’s actually worse than that. I was watching some Rich Rebuilds videos at some point and he had someone on who knows Tesla’s very well. The guy was saying that as temps drop below a certain point the car has to warm up coolant and run it around the battery to keep the battery happy and on standard wall outlet there is actually not enough current to even replenish the energy it uses for just that.
 

Spectre

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I forgot to address this but it’s actually worse than that. I was watching some Rich Rebuilds videos at some point and he had someone on who knows Tesla’s very well. The guy was saying that as temps drop below a certain point the car has to warm up coolant and run it around the battery to keep the battery happy and on standard wall outlet there is actually not enough current to even replenish the energy it uses for just that.
Yup, but I left that out for simplification. :)
 

bone

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so basically, it's just the US powergrid that's too weak?

i have 400V 40A entering my house, plenty of electricity to play with!
 

Spectre

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so basically, it's just the US powergrid that's too weak?

i have 400V 40A entering my house, plenty of electricity to play with!
Wall power is deliberately lower than what comes into the house or building (most commonly 240V) due to historical reasons, see below. Power delivered to the house or building is usually three phase but it is immediately split up into single phase wiring with perhaps two phase used for electric dryers, ovens and ranges. Those last are special runs of higher capacity wire unlike the entire rest of the building and adding an additional 240V outlet for a 'fast charger' usually requires an electrician and additional permitting. It's not a giant expense, but it's not insignificant.

As to why we use 110/120V, it has nothing to do with the strength of the power grid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity#History

Bottom line - you can't just cart around your portable fast charger and expect to find a convenient 240V outlet over here.
 
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Spectre

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Fun fact, you can find charging ports at RV parks that have a three phase outlets.
Yup, just ask for shore power. But for some strange reason, you don't find too many RV parks in built-up parts of cities... And they tend to charge quite a lot of money to use their power - sometimes by the month installment. :p

You can also find them at marinas (again, shore power) but, uh, unless your BEV floats rather well, you're going to need a rather long extension cord to get the power back to the parking lot... :p
 

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two phase used for electric dryers, ovens and ranges.
Apologies in advance for the pedantry. Something interesting I learned when doing the 240V wiring for my garage is that it's not actually two-phase, it's "split-phase" which is why we can run 120V single-phase circuits from each leg of it. Actual two-phase does exist in the States but it's extremely rare.
 

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so basically, it's just the US powergrid that's too weak?

i have 400V 40A entering my house, plenty of electricity to play with!
Maybe certain areas but in experience, it’s not that. It’s really down to people wanting to install the chargers and who to get to pull wiring from the poll. It becomes such a nightmare on city vs power company that most electrical projects are done very slowly if at all.
 

Spectre

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Apologies in advance for the pedantry. Something interesting I learned when doing the 240V wiring for my garage is that it's not actually two-phase, it's "split-phase" which is why we can run 120V single-phase circuits from each leg of it. Actual two-phase does exist in the States but it's extremely rare.
I type corrected, then.

Maybe certain areas but in experience, it’s not that. It’s really down to people wanting to install the chargers and who to get to pull wiring from the poll. It becomes such a nightmare on city vs power company that most electrical projects are done very slowly if at all.
That's only in certain parts of the country. Down south and in most places out west, it's less of a fight but running the actual electrical circuit with a certified electrician is still a non-trivial cost and effort for most houses or office buildings.
 

prizrak

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Though one thing I will say about EE video is that it is somewhat misleading in that just because something is rated at 15k lbs doesn't mean that people will often be towing that much and that would change the equation somewhat.
 

narf

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I think @narf ran the numbers on this a couple of years ago and it actually isn’t as bad as you think. IIRC the main reason is that when you aren’t moving there is no “idling” in an EV so all it does is run A/C
Yup.

In an ICE car, going very slow is hugely inefficient in terms of mpg because the ICE has significant overhead at very low power outputs.
In an electric car, no matter if BEV or FCEV, going very slow is highly efficient because the electric motor is very efficient at low power outputs.
For the driving part alone, slow traffic should increase your range in the electric car because of less aero, but decrease your range in the ICE car.

For AC while standing, the ICE has to run to deliver those 1-2kW for the compressor - maybe 1-2l/h, depending on your engine. For reference, the Beetle idled at about 0.6l/h when warm with the AC off, so a slightly bigger engine and AC load will be more. That will drain a 50l tank in 25-50h.
Take your 55-75kWh Model 3 battery, the AC compressor should drain it in 27.5-75h - pretty much the same time.

In other words, if those numbers were accurate then running the AC for an hour long commute would drain 1/75 to 1/25.5 of your range. More than zero, but hardly a problem.
Cold weather will be a bigger factor.


Obviously, the numbers may not be exactly accurate, but the overall ballpark will be. Prove me wrong.
 

narf

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You can also find them at marinas (again, shore power) but, uh, unless your BEV floats rather well, you're going to need a rather long extension cord to get the power back to the parking lot... :p
Just park where they store the boats for winter, you'll find shore power outlets there too... at least over here. Usually it's 230V 16A single phase though :shakefist:
 

Spectre

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Just park where they store the boats for winter, you'll find shore power outlets there too... at least over here. Usually it's 230V 16A single phase though :shakefist:
I live in Texas. People boat year round here. :p

More seriously, the last few times I've been to a lake marina around here, the storage area only had 110V.
 
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narf

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Our boat storage has bigger plugs available, iirc up to 230V 3x63A, but our boat only takes the blue three pin single phase 230V 16A plug :dunno:

 

prizrak

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Stock prices aren’t a good indicator of company’s profitability, Apple stock drops on every iphone release because reasons yet they are making ridiculous amount of money
 

GRtak

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Stock prices aren’t a good indicator of company’s profitability, Apple stock drops on every iphone release because reasons yet they are making ridiculous amount of money

Who said anything about profitability? I posted an article to fuel the hate. :tease: :mrgreen:
 

bone

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Stock prices aren’t a good indicator of company’s profitability, Apple stock drops on every iphone release because reasons yet they are making ridiculous amount of money
like stock cares about profitability
uber hasn't made a dime ever and still is going strong
 
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