The 'I don't like Tesla' Thread

bone

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i think it'll all depend of what MB, BMW etc come up with

as long as their strongest competitors are the renault zoe and nissan leaf, they have nothing to fear
 

prizrak

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I was actually thinking the more common manufacturers like Ford and GM with stuff like the Mach E. Basically Model3/Y competitors that can be built and sold at volume.
 

DanRoM

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So....
The article said:
Spiegel's fund lost more than $1 million from shorting Tesla, which he started doing back in 2014. This week, he began cutting back.

"[It was] at 20% of the fund, sometimes a third of the fund, and I slashed it back today because [the stock price] is just so decoupled from reality," he said on Monday.
20 - 33% (!) of a fund in a single stock? Please tell me that's not normal.

Hehe, yeah I tend to forget that in euro land they sell “regular” cars as well as higher end stuff.
Dude, they are the higher end stuff. Just very common.
 

prizrak

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Dude, they are the higher end stuff. Just very common.
That kind of depends on your definition of higher end, the base 3 series here is the 330i starting at $40k, by comparison a Camry starts at $25K. Looking at the German site for BMW, you get the 1 series, which we don't at all, and your entry level 3er is a 318. Obviously I can't read german to compare trims and such but I suspect we get way more stuff standard here than over in your neck of the woods as well.

P.S. I am not making any kind of a value argument here of murrica vs europe or anything like that, just pointing the difference in models US gets vs Germany.
 

Perc

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P.S. I am not making any kind of a value argument here of murrica vs europe or anything like that, just pointing the difference in models US gets vs Germany.
You guys don't get the 318i and we didn't get the Chevrolet Cavalier. I guess it's a fair trade.

I seem to recall that our 320i was badged 328i over there though. Identical hardware and power output, but Americans don't trust small engines...
 

prizrak

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Americans don't trust small engines.
Small engines are bad for you!
It’s more along the lines of market segments, in the US a luxury car has to have some grunt, otherwise it just won’t sell. It’s even worse for BMW since they are marketing themselves here as “ultimate driving machine”, so buyers expect it to be sport luxury.
 

GRtak

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So....
20 - 33% (!) of a fund in a single stock? Please tell me that's not normal.

Dude, they are the higher end stuff. Just very common.

I don't know if it is common or not. I find that whole part of the investment world strange. It is like betting on a sports team, but not the game or season, but how many beers they sold.
 

Blind_Io

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Reports of Tesla unintended acceleration are being investigated.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/17/nhtsa-evaluating-tesla-driver-complaints-of-unintended-acceleration.html

Federal agency looking into Tesla driver complaints of sudden unintended acceleration

A division of the U.S. Department of Transportation is looking into driver complaints that Tesla electric vehicles may suddenly accelerate on their own.

CNBC has learned that an independent investor, Brian Sparks, submitted a petition to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and its Office of Defects Investigations asking them to look into the drivers’ claims.

The petition includes a collection of 127 complaints that were either submitted to the government by Tesla owners, or others filing on their behalf. These complaints, when tallied, allege that unintended acceleration of Tesla electric vehicles may have contributed to or caused 110 crashes and 52 injuries.

Sparks said he conducted primary research and submitted the petition, which CNBC obtained, because he was moved by the personal story of Jennifer Terry. Sparks is currently shorting Tesla stock, but has hedged his bets and been long shares of Tesla in the past.

Terry was driving a new 2019 Tesla Model 3 in the summer of 2019, she says, when the vehicle’s systems apparently failed and the car accelerated suddenly. She regained control of the Model 3, but was badly shaken by the incident.

She told CNBC she notified Tesla and requested an immediate service appointment, but the company offered her an appointment that was several weeks out. Just one week later, while she was waiting to have the car evaluated, the same thing happened to her again. This time, what Terry describes as sudden unintended acceleration (SUA) led to a four-car crash that injured two people. In her driver complaint to NHTSA in July 2019, Terry also said that some airbags in her vehicle failed to deploy.

Terry said on Friday that, although she has requested data and a resolution from the company, Tesla has yet to provide any diagnosis regarding what happened within her vehicle.

Sparks told CNBC, “I briefly looked on the NHTSA website to see if other Tesla drivers experienced the same. I didn’t expect to see such a large number of [sudden unintended acceleration] complaints, most with similar fact patterns. That’s when I decided to dig in.”

NHTSA said, in a notice about the petition, that the scope of these allegations are broad and could apply to 500,000 Tesla vehicles including Model 3, Model S and Model X sedans and SUVs, made from 2013 through 2019.

Once it evaluates the contents of the petition, NHTSA -- which has the power to mandate vehicle recalls, or recalls of components and other technology in vehicles -- will decide if it should open a formal probe. If it decides not to offer a formal probe, it is expected to say why not, with an entry on a federal registry. The NHTSA investigator assigned to evaluate the petition is Ajit Alkondon.

Historically, the Department of Transportation (and NHTSA) receives myriad complaints about possible unintended acceleration incidents in a wide number of vehicles.

Both evaluated Toyota and Lexus vehicles in the 2000s to determine if defects in their electrical systems led to sudden acceleration and crashes. Many incidents that drivers ascribe to unintended acceleration, upon investigation, are found to be caused by driver errors, like pedal misapplication.

Tesla vehicles include newer technologies, such as the company’s signature advanced driver assistance system, Autopilot, and “Ludicrous mode” acceleration, which allows drivers of some Model 3 variants to go from 0 to 60 mph in less than 4 seconds.

Tesla’s press and investor relations teams did not respond to a request for comment.
 

Perc

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Small engines are bad for you!
It’s more along the lines of market segments, in the US a luxury car has to have some grunt, otherwise it just won’t sell. It’s even worse for BMW since they are marketing themselves here as “ultimate driving machine”, so buyers expect it to be sport luxury.
Your "328i" is (or was) still identical to our 320i in both power and displacement, they just changed the badge to make it appeal to customers that want "some grunt".

I also bet the "20i" helped attract European buyers that think "28i" would use too much fuel. :p
 

prizrak

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Your "328i" is (or was) still identical to our 320i in both power and displacement, they just changed the badge to make it appeal to customers that want "some grunt".

I also bet the "20i" helped attract European buyers that think "28i" would use too much fuel. :p
Gotta love marketing!
 

bone

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Perc

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160 miles = 257 km.
[insert math here]
24,50€ per 100km.

With a diesel price of 1.4€ and a consumption of 6 liters, you get 8,4€/100km.

24,50€/100km is also equivalent to an average consumption of 17.5 liters per 100km, or three and a half diesel golfs.
 

leviathan

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Yeah, that move really doesn't look good in PR for EVs as a whole.

In practice, no-one will be paying those prices except people who are clueless. There are multiple charging card providers you can have for free that offer much more humane prices (0,29€-0,39€ per kWh or 7-9€ per full charge; Maingau EinfachStromLaden, Telekom GoCharge, ADAC e-Charge, Shell Recharge/TheNewMotion and several others), some of them have already confirmed that their pricing will remain as is after this change and that they will continue to work with Ionity chargers. Also, this is where the whole idea behind Ionity being funded by multiple manufacturers comes into play: every one of those manufacturers (VW, BMW, Porsche, Mercedes, etc) will offer their own "MSP" charging package bundled with their cars, also with much more "normal" prices. The 0,79€ price point is to make it unattractive to use Ionity ad-hoc, and instead force people towards the MSP deals and other third-party charging card/key providers.

Which really doesn't help the whole charging infrastructure clusterfuck that we have in Europe. I can totally see how this will turn people away from EVs, just because of the added unnecessary complexity. I've been asked whether I can recommend an EV to various people I know, and in good faith I can currently only recommend one to "techy" people who I know will be able to make sense of the system the same way I do - for many others this is essentially a prohibitive barrier to entry.

PS. Also, of course people use one of the least efficient EVs out there for the price comparisons :) With the same 80kWh in a Model S Long Range, you can quite realistically travel almost double the distance. Still not cost-effective at 79c/kWh of course, just that comparing a e-tron to a diesel Golf isn't quite honest - it's more similar to a higher-range Q5 or Q7, with their respectively different consumption figures.
 
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JimCorrigan

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Yup. Been expecting that for a while now. Surprised it hasn’t happened in North America more yet.

Related story: I have a good friend and colleague who drives a Leaf (hey, it’s not mine!), and two other docs in the same complex have Tesla Model Esses. They want the strata to pay for recharging stations in the car park. I’m the only person who owns his office space (all the others rent from the strata owner). I don’t care what they do for the other units, but I’ve already made it clear I’m not footing any of the bill for these stations, unless they wanna subsidize my gasoline.
 
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