The 'I don't like Tesla' Thread

bone

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why didn't tesla just start a michigan company that buys the cars from the factory, and then sells them on to the customers?

isn't that how most dealerships work anyways?
 

GRtak

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why didn't tesla just start a michigan company that buys the cars from the factory, and then sells them on to the customers?

isn't that how most dealerships work anyways?

Nope, at least not the way I understand it. The dealership is a private company that licenses the right to sell vehicles. The dealership has to maintain certain standards as part of the license agreement. The automaker also has certain obligations.

I never understood why an automaker can't have their own dealerships.
 

LeVeL

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It's basically a union that's been around for a century, is no longer needed, takes in lots of money, lobbies governments, and pretends to offer consumer protection or some nonsense.
 

Matt2000

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As expected, the headline doesn't describe the story correctly. I don't agree with every new owner having to re-buy the full self-driving option but if that's the case then removing it when the new owner didn't buy it shouldn't be a surprise.

Tesla themselves do sometimes list used cars with FSD on their website though, so I'm not sure how that works.
 

GRtak

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The owner is going to have some recourse. The dealer advertised the car as having the feature, the question is did Tesla? If Tesla did, they will end up having to give it back. The new, current owner will sue the dealership, and the dealership will sue Tesla.
 

prizrak

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I don't agree with every new owner having to re-buy the full self-driving option
That's pretty much where I'm at, if the car had it when it was sold originally it should have it all the way till ends up in a scrap yard. Imagine if my Mustang would become a V6 when I bought it because I didn't pay for the "V8" option...
 

LeVeL

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What about navigation, should it be updated forever by the manufacturer? Should Lexus provide updated maps for 30yo cars?

What about satellite radio? A lot of new cars come with free trial subscriptions that expire after a year or two.

This is an especially interesting topic as cars are becoming more and more computerized. If my computer and my phone need software upgrades, then cars will too sooner or later. Yet, Microsoft doesn't support XP anymore...
 

narf

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Since this kind of became EV random thoughts posting it here
No word about the significantly different drivetrain efficiencies? A BEV can turn most of the energy from the battery into motion, an ICE turns most of the fuel into heat... at peak ICE efficiency (highish load, moderate revs) there should be maybe two jugs of fuel to balance this, for a real world average somewhere between three and five.

If you don't like this theoretical thought, consider how far a car like the first gen Leaf would go with a traditional ICE and one gallon of fuel, or picture the Tesla around that battery pack with an ICE and three gallons of fuel... a hundred miles if you're careful in low traffic, fifty miles with an ICE that rivals Tesla performance?
 

gaasc

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What about navigation, should it be updated forever by the manufacturer? Should Lexus provide updated maps for 30yo cars?

What about satellite radio? A lot of new cars come with free trial subscriptions that expire after a year or two.

This is an especially interesting topic as cars are becoming more and more computerized. If my computer and my phone need software upgrades, then cars will too sooner or later. Yet, Microsoft doesn't support XP anymore...
The ideal, expected really, situation is that the vehicle will just stop receiving support and continue to function as it did as of its last update with whatever resources from the aftermarket and risks that carries. The same way that you can still use your XP computer today.
 

prizrak

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What about navigation, should it be updated forever by the manufacturer? Should Lexus provide updated maps for 30yo cars?
That’s data vs function, navigation will still function it might just not know of some changes to roads or be missing/have inaccurate POIs but the functionality will still be there. Yeah it’s fine to charge for data updates since they aren’t part of the core functionality.

What about satellite radio? A lot of new cars come with free trial subscriptions that expire after a year or two.
That’s a subscription service by definition, manufacturer put hardware in the car but it requires subscription to use. No different from having to fill up my car with gas if I want to keep driving it.
As opposed to say Ford remotely turning off 2 cylinders and saying “well you didn’t pay for the V8 upgrade”

To my knowledge Tesla's autopilot is not a subscription service, all the processing is done on board by the car's computer without a requirement to phone home.
This is an especially interesting topic as cars are becoming more and more computerized. If my computer and my phone need software upgrades, then cars will too sooner or later. Yet, Microsoft doesn't support XP anymore..
You are muddying up things here a little bit. MS is a software company and as such they can’t keep supporting older software for a long time as they have to focus on newer software. Even then XP didn’t run out of support for way longer than one would expect. Longer than average car stays on the road really.

There is also the fact that when your main product is software you have to make changes and updates on a semi-constant basis simply to not be left in the dust by your completion (Google Maps vs Apple Maps come to mind)

Hardware and embedded systems are a little different in that regard, there aren’t too many changes needed to the firmware that runs on them and there is a value in long term as that can be seen as a value to your customer. Ford had an update for the ancient Sync in my car just last year.
 
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LeVeL

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Autopilot is also just a software function - you can drive the Tesla without that function, no problem. In fact, not having that function really doesn't affect the mechanical performance in any way - you just need to actually drive the damn car and have your hands on the wheel, which you're supposed to do anyways even in autopilot mode.

I think what's shitty here is that it seems that Tesla never said that the feature will be turned off under certain circumstances. That's the problem I have with this story - the misinformation.
 
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