The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

Interrobang

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GRtak;n3549678 said:
He didn't know about the meeting, now he laid out the initial response to the meeting... More lies, and he can't be charged with a crime while in office, and he can of course pardon himself. Just another day on the Trump merry go round.[...]
The funny or rather curious thing for me about this is that some people seem to think that (if there was a case was bought against him) - he wouldn't be impeachment FIRST.

He surely cannot pardon himself BEFORE there are charges against him ... come on, Us law cannot be that stupid ... or can it?
 

NecroJoe

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I thought, and partially because it's consistently repeated by the press, that you can't be "pardoned" unless you've plead/were found guilty. Like...you can't be pardoned of...nothing.


Yesterday, I heard an interesting loop hole: he could go in for a surgery where he'll be put under. Swear in Pence as interim president, which is apparently a thing, who then has the power to pardon Trump. Who can then wake up from the procedure and be president again, with a clean slate. :lol:
 

Blind_Io

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GRtak;n3549748 said:
Ford pardoned Nixon before charges were made.
Ford and Nixon were two different people. Nixon asked if he could pardon himself, when he was told "no" he resigned and was immediately pardoned by Ford. What is interesting is that to accept a pardon you also admit guilt. One can refuse a pardon and maintain their innocence, seeking a trial to do so.
 

GRtak

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I get that they are not the same person, I was responding to the question about being pardoned before conviction, and used that as an example.
 

prizrak

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GRtak;n3549856 said:
I get that they are not the same person, I was responding to the question about being pardoned before conviction, and used that as an example.
As per Blind's post above, he didn't need to be convicted he basically admitted guilt by accepting the pardon. It's a peculiarity of the legal system.
 

argatoga

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Eye-Q;n3549364 said:
Trump has to be bipolar or something - first he calls Kim Jong Un "little rocket man" and threatens pretty blatantly with the US's nuclear arsenal, then pretty much all of a sudden agrees to a "peace summit", then on Thursday there is an official letter of cancelling the "peace summit", now he speaks about "productive talks about reinstating the summit" again... :?

Since when is flip-flopping all the damn time a good idea to lead "the leader of the free world"? The world doesn't function without something like "stability" and "dependability", and currently it seems the government of the US of A is neither of those...
If only Trump would have written a book on his negotiation strategy so we could understand what he is doing...

In the end, the embargo (assuming China keeps their end of the deal) will force Kim to capitulate. Unless Trump gets him to remove the artillery targeting Soul, I won't consider it a win however.
 

Blind_Io

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That artillery is largely a paper tiger. Most their guns date back to the 50s and the barrels have long since been shot out. Even his longest-range guns can only reach the northern outskirts of Seoul - and only if they pile all them into one very small spit of land that is close enough. I guarantee that putting that many guns in such a small area will raise concerns; I also bet that military strategists know this and have already got the area pre-sighted for counter-battery fire and missile strikes. North Korea would never pile all their assets into such a vulnerable place just to have them taken out in a matter of hours; it isn't worth bombarding some suburb.

North Korea wants only one thing: their continued existence. They won't resort to an NBC attack or a first strike against Seoul because they know it would mean their end at the hands of China, the US, South Korea, and pretty much everyone else. As long as they remain an annoyance within their own borders, the world will continue to tolerate them simply because the cost to wipe them out and reunify with the south is staggering by comparison. If they stray outside those lines, however, they become a risk to the world. They got very close with their recent missile and nuclear program, and they are now walking it back a little.
 

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The Trump administration offers great opportunities for really fulfilling jobs:
[...] a clash between legal requirements to preserve White House records and President Donald Trump’s odd and enduring habit of ripping up papers when he’s done with them — what some people described as his unofficial “filing system.”

Under the Presidential Records Act, the White House must preserve all memos, letters, emails and papers that the president touches, sending them to the National Archives for safekeeping as historical records. [...]
(Source: Meet the guys who tape Trump's papers back together)

Well, elect a clown, of course a circus is what you get. It amazes me that there are people who put up with him as a boss.
 

GRtak

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He is worse than a spoiled child, he is a spoiled adult, and that is the worst type of human. He has never had to take responsibility at any level for his actions, and as he has grown up (he is in his 70s) he was always the son of the boss, or the boss. How does anyone expect to learn real responsibility in that situation? And to those that will still say he is a great business man, or negotiator, I will say that he is looking more and more like the con man that he has always been.
 

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So are we going to talk at all about his "Stop all trade with everyone" policy?

This is absurd, what astounds me the most is how the GOP is protecting him. Trump is literally destroying our relationships with all of our allies while complimenting and kowtowing to dictators and despots - and the GOP is helping him do it. This is the worst case of "party before country" I've ever seen and every single registered Republican who isn't blowing up their senators' and representatives' phones demanding impeachment is complicit in this unmitigated political disaster.
 

Blind_Io

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It's not about disagreeing with his style. The GOP has actively worked to undermine the Muller investigation into whether or not Trump is compromised or colluded with Russia. If they really believe that there isn't any collusion, then the light of day should not bother them because the investigation would simply lay to rest any doubt about his legitimacy as President. However, this isn't what has happened, Trump's cronies have actively obstructed the investigation, lied to Muller's team, and tampered with witnesses. The GOP itself held what amounts to mock hearings in which they didn't even call all their own witnesses before announcing that there was no evidence of collusion. There is a huge amount of publicly available evidence that points towards collusion with Russia - and that's just what we know about.

So far in the Mueller investigation:

1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, pleaded guilty in October to making false statements to the FBI.

2) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty in December to making false statements to the FBI.

3) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted in October in Washington, DC on charges of conspiracy, money laundering, and false statements — all related to his work for Ukrainian politicians before he joined the Trump campaign. He’s pleaded not guilty on all counts. Then, in February, Mueller filed a new case against him in Virginia, with tax, financial, and bank fraud charges.
  • 7 counts in Washington, DC: One count each of conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to launder money, acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, making false and misleading Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) statements, a false statements charge in connection with FARA, obstruction of justice, and conspiracy to obstruct justice.
  • 18 counts in Virginia: 5 counts of filing false income tax returns, 4 counts of failing to report foreign bank and financial accounts, and 9 counts of bank fraud or bank conspiracy
4) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February he agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller.

22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine.

23) Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case this year.


This doesn't even scratch the surface of his insecure communications, the acts of his children, the fact that he's sending his daughter on official state business, and I've lost track of how many times his family has been allowed to "amend" their security clearance documents as new information hits the media.
 

marcos_eirik

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Blind_Io;n3550094 said:
It's not about disagreeing with his style. The GOP has actively worked to undermine the Muller investigation into whether or not Trump is compromised or colluded with Russia. If they really believe that there isn't any collusion, then the light of day should not bother them because the investigation would simply lay to rest any doubt about his legitimacy as President. However, this isn't what has happened, Trump's cronies have actively obstructed the investigation, lied to Muller's team, and tampered with witnesses. The GOP itself held what amounts to mock hearings in which they didn't even call all their own witnesses before announcing that there was no evidence of collusion. There is a huge amount of publicly available evidence that points towards collusion with Russia - and that's just what we know about.

So far in the Mueller investigation:

1) George Papadopoulos, former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, pleaded guilty in October to making false statements to the FBI.

2) Michael Flynn, Trump’s former national security adviser, pleaded guilty in December to making false statements to the FBI.

3) Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign chair, was indicted in October in Washington, DC on charges of conspiracy, money laundering, and false statements — all related to his work for Ukrainian politicians before he joined the Trump campaign. He’s pleaded not guilty on all counts. Then, in February, Mueller filed a new case against him in Virginia, with tax, financial, and bank fraud charges.
  • 7 counts in Washington, DC: One count each of conspiracy to defraud the United States, conspiracy to launder money, acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign principal, making false and misleading Foreign Agent Registration Act (FARA) statements, a false statements charge in connection with FARA, obstruction of justice, and conspiracy to obstruct justice.
  • 18 counts in Virginia: 5 counts of filing false income tax returns, 4 counts of failing to report foreign bank and financial accounts, and 9 counts of bank fraud or bank conspiracy
4) Rick Gates, a former Trump campaign aide and Manafort’s longtime junior business partner, was indicted on similar charges to Manafort. But in February he agreed to a plea deal with Mueller’s team, pleading guilty to just one false statements charge and one conspiracy charge.

5-20) 13 Russian nationals and three Russian companies were indicted on conspiracy charges, with some also being accused of identity theft. The charges related to a Russian propaganda effort designed to interfere with the 2016 campaign. The companies involved are the Internet Research Agency, often described as a “Russian troll farm,” and two other companies that helped finance it. The Russian nationals indicted include 12 of the agency’s employees and its alleged financier, Yevgeny Prigozhin.

21) Richard Pinedo: This California man pleaded guilty to an identity theft charge in connection with the Russian indictments, and has agreed to cooperate with Mueller.

22) Alex van der Zwaan: This London lawyer pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI about his contacts with Rick Gates and another unnamed person based in Ukraine.

23) Konstantin Kilimnik: This longtime business associate of Manafort and Gates, who’s currently based in Russia, was charged alongside Manafort with attempting to obstruct justice by tampering with witnesses in Manafort’s pending case this year.


This doesn't even scratch the surface of his insecure communications, the acts of his children, the fact that he's sending his daughter on official state business, and I've lost track of how many times his family has been allowed to "amend" their security clearance documents as new information hits the media.
Quoted for truth. As someone who is innocent they sure as hell make sure to act as guilty as possible. For fuck's sake, the guy is talking about pardoning himself... If there hadn't been anything worthwhile in this investigation, Mueller would have closed the case a long time ago.

Basically, the entire Trump administration is a clusterfuck of incompetence, and they have Faux News to help them spread disinformation and cover their tracks:
 

Blind_Io

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Just after posting I went to lunch and watched that video. As usual, Last Week Tonight does a better job at outlining the events of this scandal than I ever could.
 

marcos_eirik

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Yes, if you strip away the jokes, Last Week Tonight does a very good job of outlining this whole thing. It's not very easy to do, because there's so much to dig into with this administration, you can wonder if it's intentional, just a smoke screen to distract people from the real damage Trump is doing. For instance, under the cover of the Mueller investigation, the Stormy Daniels debacle, etc. Trump has been able get a new tax law passed, which is pure corporate and million/billionaire welfare, at the expense of average Joe (while throwing average Joe some crumbs to give an impression of care) Additionally they are working on taking people's health care away, recently they also repealed net neutrality. But worst of all, The Trump administration has ruined the reputation of the USA for a very long time by being unpredictable and changing stance on subjects multiple times, alienating allies, and courting despots and autocrats. It's going to take a very long time to restore this damage.
 
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