The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

JimCorrigan

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FYI, the constitutionalists have a right to be angry when it comes to news like this:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/47520/nevada-passes-bill-give-electoral-votes-national-james-barrett

The whole point of the electoral college (a system I greatly admire and wish we had here) was to prevent clustered urban centres from dictating policy to larger swaths of sparser populated land run by people with different values. It was designed to ensure presidential campaigns didn't ignore the little guy (or girl).

Bills like this are eroding the very foundation of the republic.
 

GRtak

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The electoral college is antiquated, and this is not illegal, it is just a framework to award the votes.

I am not a big fan of this all or nothing awarding of the votes. Awarding them proportionally would be a better compromise.

In reference to the shift of both parties to the right, this really took effect when Reagon went after religious voters. The democrats were forced to go after them too. There has always been a courtship of religious votes, but not in the same way. It has continued ever since.

The other notable swing came from the Tea Party. They were /are a hard swing to the right. They also seem to be the breaking point for the masses.

One of those radical ideas that the right is crying communism over was wanted by Nixon. How has universal healthcare gone from a moderate conservative idea to communist?
 
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TC

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The electoral college is antiquated,
It's actually a genius system to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority by shifting the power of the majority slightly.

I am not a big fan of this all or nothing awarding of the votes.
And yet you're against the Electoral College and would prefer a majority rules, popular vote system instead?

Awarding them proportionally would be a better compromise.
I agree, that would definitely be a better compromise over simply getting rid of the Electoral College. One of the things that has always bothered me about our popular vote statistics is that quite a lot of people will not bother voting because they are a right winger in a dark blue state, or a left winger in a dark red state, etc. I imagine that if we actually did have a popular vote system for determining who our next President is, we would experience massive record high voter turn out.

In reference to the shift of both parties to the right, this really took effect when Reagon went after religious voters. The democrats were forced to go after them too. There has always been a courtship of religious votes, but not in the same way. It has continued ever since.

The other notable swing came from the Tea Party. They were /are a hard swing to the right. They also seem to be the breaking point for the masses.
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One of those radical ideas that the right is crying communism over was wanted by Nixon. How has universal healthcare gone from a moderate conservative idea to communist?
What makes you think it was ever a moderate conservative idea? Because Nixon liked it? I don't think that logic follows. It's like the people who claim the ACA was a conservative idea because Romney liked it.
 

prizrak

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I agree, that would definitely be a better compromise over simply getting rid of the Electoral College. One of the things that has always bothered me about our popular vote statistics is that quite a lot of people will not bother voting because they are a right winger in a dark blue state, or a left winger in a dark red state, etc. I imagine that if we actually did have a popular vote system for determining who our next President is, we would experience massive record high voter turn out.
The whole first past the post system is flawed in and off itself. When the country was founded any other system would have been rather difficult to implement, in this day and age there are plenty of other systems we could use that would for one break up the two party system and two be closer to actual values people hold.
Additionally voting day needs to be a national holiday.
 

Blind_Io

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Was he forced to resign? That is what you said.
Looking at the last 5 years, we see a notable difference in the way the GOP and the Democrats handled accusations of sexual misconduct. Clinton was held accountable by his own party through impeachment - and that was over 20 years ago. Since that time, other allegations of his sexual misconduct have come out, but he has not been in public office nor has he been a figurehead of the democratic party.

Do I really need to dig up my post detailing the vast differences in criminal allegations, pleas, and guilty verdicts between the GOP and Democrats since the 1970s? The fact is that the parties are not two sides of the same coin, one has a demonstrably longer and more sordid history of criminal behavior than the other.
 

TC

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Clinton wasn't impeached for sexual misconduct. And people like Al Franken resigned due to actual photographs of his misconduct, so not exactly a mere accusation presented without evidence.

I'd also like to point out the very obvious truth that much criminal behavior in DC doesn't even get an indictment. Regardless it proves nothing about other members of the party. Guilt by association is unprincipled.
 

Blind_Io

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Wow, that's a hell of a leap. By that logic, everyone not charged with being a serial killer must be the best serial killer. :rolleyes: It isn't guilt by association, it's a decades long pattern of criminal activity that is heavily weighted against the GOP. If I wanted to pick a convicted criminal out of a pool, I would have a better chance of doing that by dipping into the GOP pool than the Democrat pool.

In other news, the Justice Department has charged bank CEO Stephen Calk with bribery and corruption for illegally soliciting Trump's administration for a federal appointment in exchange for approving $60 million in risky loans.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/bank-ceo-stephen-m-calk-charged-corruptly-soliciting-presidential-administration
 

prizrak

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Wow, that's a hell of a leap. By that logic, everyone not charged with being a serial killer must be the best serial killer.
They certainly could be, there are plenty of criminals walking around free and never even talked to the police.

If you think there are politicians who give even the smallest fuck about their constituents I got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
 

JimCorrigan

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it's a decades long pattern of criminal activity that is heavily weighted against the GOP. If I wanted to pick a convicted criminal out of a pool, I would have a better chance of doing that by dipping into the GOP pool than the Democrat pool.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

Blind_Io

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Go take a look at my post compiling criminal convictions by party. Sorry, but that's the data.
 

Blind_Io

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I've already done that, I can't make you look at the data.
 

Blind_Io

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Here, let me spoon feed it.... Again

But let's skip the whataboutism that you love so much and take a look at some data.

Here we have a break down by individual administration. Seeing a pattern yet?

View attachment 3555081

Let's make it more clear by party lines.

View attachment 3555082

Wait, maybe this data is biased based on number of years in office, let's account for that.

View attachment 3555083

....Oh, not looking good.

But wait, you love pointing out that an arraignment is not a conviction! Let's take a look at it case-by-case

President Barack Obama’s Administration
  • No appointed officials have faced criminal prosecution.
President George W. Bush’s Administration
  • Felipe Sixto—Office: Special Assistant for Intergovernmental Affairs as well as Duty Director at the Office of Public Liaison. Crime: Misuse of grant money from the U.S. Agency for International Development from before he took office. Result: conviction and imprisonment
  • Scott Bloch—Office: head the United States Office of Special Counsel. Crime: pleaded guilty to criminal contempt of Congress for withholding information from a congressional investigation. Result: conviction and imprisonment
  • Lewis “Scooter” Libby—Office: Chief of Staff to Vice President Dick Cheney. Crime: perjury and obstruction of justice in the Valerie Plame case. Sentence: imprisonment (commuted by George W. Bush)
  • John Korsmo—Office: chairman of the Federal Housing Finance Board. Crime: pleaded guilty to lying to Congress. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Darleen A. Druyun—Office: Principal Deputy Undersecretary of the Air Force. Crime: pleaded guilty to inflating the price of contracts to favor her future employer, Boeing. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • David Safavian—Office: General Services Administration Chief of Staff. Crime: found guilty of blocking justice and lying in the Jack Abramoff Scandal. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • Roger Stillwell—Office: Staff in the Department of the Interior. Crime: Pleaded guilty to participating in the Jack Abramoff scandal. Result: convicted (imprisonment suspended)
  • J. Steven Griles—Office: Deputy to the Secretary of the Interior. Crime: pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice in the Jack Abramoff Scandal. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • Italia Federici—Office: staff to the Secretary of the Interior, and President of the Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy. Crime: pled guilty to tax evasion and obstruction of justice. Resulted: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Jared Carpenter—Office: Vice-President of the Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy. Crime: pled guilty to income tax evasion. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • Mark Zachares—Office: staff in the Department of Labor. Crime: bribed by Abramoff and guilty of conspiracy to defraud. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Robert E. Coughlin—Office: Deputy Chief of Staff, Criminal Division of the Justice Department. Crime: pleaded guilty to conflict of interest after accepting bribes from Jack Abramoff. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Kyle Foggo—Office: Executive director of the CIA. Crime: was convicted of honest services fraud in the awarding of government contracts. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • Claude Allen—Office: Advisor on Domestic Policy. Crime: series of felony thefts in retail stores. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Lester Crawford—Office: Commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration. Crime: pleaded guilty to conflict of interest. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Bernard Kerik—Office: nominated to be Secretary of Homeland Security but confirmation derailed. Crime: employing an undocumented nanny two and other improprieties, and later two counts of tax fraud and five counts of lying to the federal government. Result: convicted and imprisoned
President Bill Clinton’s Administration
  • Bill Clinton - Impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice Result: Acquitted on all charges. Later attempt to file new articles of impeachment failed in the House. Later, Clinton was cited for contempt of court, fined $90,000 and his law license in Arkansas was suspended for 5 years.
  • Mike Espy—Office: Secretary of Agriculture: Crime: indicted on 30 counts of receiving improper gifts. Result: found not guilty of all charge
  • Ronald Blackley—Office: Chief of Staff to the Secretary of Agriculture Mike Espy. Crime: perjury. Result: Convicted and imprisoned
President George H. W. Bush’s Administration
  • Catalina Vasquez Villalpando—Office: Treasurer of the United States. Crime: pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice and tax evasion. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • Iran-Contra Affair pardons—President George H. W. Bush granted clemency to five convicted government officials from the Reagan Administration as well as to Caspar Weinberger, whose trial had not yet begun. This action prevented any further investigation into the matter, potentially protecting Bush from being personally implicated. (Results tallied under the Reagan administration.)
President Ronald Reagan’s Administration
  • Melvyn Paisley—Office: Assistant Secretary of the Navy. Crime: pleaded guilty to accepting hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • James E. Gaines—Office: Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy. Crime: accepting an illegal gratuity, and theft and conversion of government property. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • Victor D. Cohen—Office: Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Air Force. Crime: pleaded guilty to accepting bribes and conspiring to defraud the government, the 50th conviction obtained under the Operation Ill Wind probe. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • James G. Watt—Office: Secretary of Interior. Crime: charged with 25 counts of perjury and obstruction of justice. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Deborah Gore Dean—Office: Executive Assistant to Samuel Pierce, Secretary of Housing & Urban Development. Crime: 12 counts of perjury, conspiracy, bribery. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • Philip D. Winn—Office: Assistant Secretary of HUD. Crime: pleaded guilty to bribery. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Thomas Demery—Office: Assistant Secretary of HUD. Crime: pleaded guilty to bribery and obstruction. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Joseph A. Strauss—Office: Special Assistant to the Secretary of HUD. Crime: convicted of accepting payments to favor Puerto Rican land developers. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Silvio D. DeBartolomeis—Office: Assistant Secretary of HUD. Crime: convicted of perjury and bribery. Result: convicted but not imprisoned.
  • Lyn Nofziger—Office: White House Press Secretary. Crime: indicted for lobbying. Result: convicted, but conviction overturned on appeal.
  • Caspar Weinberger—Office: Secretary of Defense. Crime: indicted on two counts of perjury and one count of obstruction of justice relating to the Iran-Contra Affair. Result: indicted by pardoned by George H. W. Bush before trial (accepting a pardon is admitting guilt)
  • Robert C. McFarlane—Office: National Security Adviser. Crime: convicted of withholding evidence in Iran-Contra Affair. Result: convicted but not imprisoned, later pardoned by George H. W. Bush
  • Elliott Abrams—Office: Assistant Secretary of State. Crime: convicted of withholding evidence in the Iran-Contra Affair. Result: convicted but not imprisoned, later pardoned by George H. W. Bush
  • Alan D. Fiers—Office: Chief of the CIA’s Central American Task Force. Crime: convicted of withholding evidence. Result: convicted but not imprisoned, later pardoned by George H. W. Bush
  • Clair George—Office: Chief of Covert Ops-CIA. Crime: convicted on 2 charges of perjury relating to the Iran-Contra Affair. Result: convicted but pardoned by George H. W. Bush before sentencing
  • Oliver North—Office: National Security Council staff member. Crime: convicted of accepting an illegal gratuity, obstruction of a congressional inquiry, and destruction of documents. Result: conviction overturned because it conflicted with the immunity he had been granted in exchange for congressional testimony (Your new NRA President, by the way)
  • John Poindexter—Office: National Security Advisor. Crime: convicted of 5 counts of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, perjury, defrauding the government, and the alteration and destruction of evidence. Result: conviction overturned by the Supreme Court
  • Duane Clarridge—Office: CIA senior official. Crime: indicted on 7 counts of perjury and false statements relating to the Iran-Contra Affair. Result: indicted but pardoned before trial by George H. W. Bush (Note: To accept a pardon is to admit guilt)
  • Richard V. Secord—Office: major general in the Air Force. Crime: pleaded guilty for organizing the Iran arms sales and Contra aid in the Iran-Contra Affair. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Thomas G. Clines—Office: intelligence official. Crime: convicted on four income tax counts, including underreporting of income to the IRS and lying about not having foreign accounts. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • Joseph F. Fernandez—Office: CIA Station Chief of Costa Rica. Crime: Indicted on five counts in 1988. Result: case dismissed when Attorney General Dick Thornburgh refused to declassify information needed for his defense in 1990.
  • Michael Deaver—Office: Deputy Chief of Staff. Crime: pleaded guilty to perjury related to lobbying activities. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Anne Gorsuch Burford—Head of the EPA. Crime: Cut the EPA staff by 22 percent and refused to turn over documents relating to the Sewergate Scandal to Congress. Result: convicted of contempt but not imprisoned
  • Rita Lavelle—Office: an EPA Administrator. Crime: misused “superfund” monies and was convicted of perjury. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • Melvyn R. Paisley—Office: Assistant Secretary of the Navy. Crime: participating in the Operation Ill Wind defense procurement scandal. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • J. Lynn Helms—Office: head of the Federal Aviation Administration. Crime: plea bargained charges by the Securities and Exchange Commission with diverting $1.2 million from an issue of tax-exempt municipal bonds to his own personal use. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Peter Voss—Office: US Postal Service Board of Governors. Crime: theft and accepting payoffs. Result: convicted and imprisoned
President Jimmy Carter’s Administration
  • Bert Lance—Director of OMB. Crime: indicted for misuse of funds during the sale of a Georgia bank to BCCI. Result: acquitted of all nine counts
President Gerald Ford’s Administration
  • Earl Butz—Office: Secretary of Agriculture. Crime: charged with tax evasion for failing to report more than $148,000 in 1978. Result: convicted and imprisoned
President Richard Nixon’s Administration

  • Spiro Agnew—Office: Vice President. Crime: convicted of tax fraud stemming from bribery charges, accepting a plea bargain that allowed for no prison time in exchange for his resignation. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Watergate—Burglary and “bugging” of the Democratic Party National Headquarters at the Watergate Hotel and subsequent cover up. Crime: 69 government officials were charged and 48 convicted or pleaded guilty. Result: 48 convictions, at least 13 prison sentences.
    • John N. Mitchell—Office: Attorney General. Crime: convicted of perjury. Result: convicted and imprisoned
    • Richard Kleindienst—Office: Attorney General. Crime: convicted of “refusing to answer questions.” Result: convicted and imprisoned
    • Jeb Stuart Magruder—Office: Head of Committee to Re-elect the President. Crime: pleaded guilty to 1 count of conspiracy. Result: convicted and imprisoned
    • Frederick C. LaRue—Office: Advisor to Attorney General John Mitchell. Crime: convicted of obstruction of justice. Result: convicted and imprisoned.
    • H. R. Haldeman—Office: Chief of Staff for Nixon. Crime: convicted of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and perjury. Result: Convicted and imprisoned
    • John Ehrlichman—Office: Counsel to Nixon. Crime: convicted of conspiracy, obstruction of justice, and perjury. Result: Convicted and imprisoned
    • Egil Krogh—Office: aide to John Ehrlichman. Crime: crimes relating to Watergate. Result: convicted and imprisoned
    • John W. Dean III—Office: counsel to Nixon. Crime: convicted of obstruction of justice. Result: convicted and imprisoned
    • Dwight L. Chapin—Office: deputy assistant to Nixon. Crime: convicted of perjury. Result: convicted and imprisoned
    • Herbert W. Kalmbach—Office: personal attorney to Nixon. Crime: convicted of illegal campaigning. Result: convicted and imprisoned
    • Charles W. Colson—Office: special counsel to Nixon. Crime: convicted of obstruction of justice. Result: convicted and imprisoned
    • Herbert L. Porter—Office: aide to the Committee to Re-elect the President. Crime: convicted of perjury. Result: convicted and imprisoned
    • G. Gordon Liddy—Office: Special Investigations Group. Crime: convicted of burglary. Result: convicted and imprisoned
  • Maurice Stans—Office: Secretary of Commerce. Crime: pleaded guilty to 3 counts of violating the reporting sections of the FEC Act and 2 counts of accepting illegal campaign contributions. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Harry Shuler Dent—Office: Presidential Counsel and Strategist Harry Shuler Dent. Crime: pleaded guilty to violations of Federal election law. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Jack A. Gleason—Office: White House Aide. Crime: pleaded guilty to violations of Federal election law concerning an illegal fund-raising operation run by the White House. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Richard Helms—Office: Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. Crime: pleaded no contest to misleading Congress concerning assassination attempts in Cuba, anti-government activities in Chile and the illegal surveillance of journalists in the US. Result: convicted but not imprisoned
  • Donald Segretti—Office: Political Operative for the Committee to Re-Elect the President. Crime: ran a “ratfucking” campaign of dirty tricks for Nixon, pleaded guilty to distributing illegal (forged) campaign literature. Result: convicted and imprisoned.
So please, tell me more about how the Democrats are just as bad when the GOP has actual Nazis in office and long history of criminal activity. Can't wait to hear the whataboutism on this one.

 

JimCorrigan

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Here, let me spoon feed it.... Again
Two things:
1) I’ll try and give this due attention sometime this weekend. I’m at a conference right now in Montreal so my attention is diverted.

2) It’s not spoonfeeding if you’re sending me data to try and make your case.
 

Blind_Io

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It is when I'm having to post the same thing multiple times.
 

mpicco

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It’s your assertion. The onus is on you to prove it, not me.
"It's your assertion, you gotta prove it, which you did with data, but that's not enough because it goes against my assertion which is backed by none"

Even being someone who tries to argue against the fact that Hydrogen only has one proton in its nucleus, you have to admit the most criminal, crooked presidents in the past century of US history have been Republican.
 

prizrak

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"It's your assertion, you gotta prove it, which you did with data, but that's not enough because it goes against my assertion which is backed by none"

Even being someone who tries to argue against the fact that Hydrogen only has one proton in its nucleus, you have to admit the most criminal, crooked presidents in the past century of US history have been Republican.
FDR puts Japanese in interment camps but Nixon spied on his political rivals, yeah Republicans are soooo much worse.
Also look up which party started the KKK, answer will shock you!
I have said it before and I will say it till I’m dead. All politicians are crooks, they are all corrupt, there is simply no other way to succeed in politics.
 
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