The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

Blind_Io

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How about the FBI directly: https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/testimony/the-terrorist-threat-confronting-the-united-states

Domestic right-wing terrorist groups often adhere to the principles of racial supremacy and embrace antigovernment, antiregulatory beliefs.
You are characterizing "antigovernment"

Also, this gem:

During the past decade we have witnessed dramatic changes in the nature of the terrorist threat. In the 1990s, right-wing extremism overtook left-wing terrorism as the most dangerous domestic terrorist threat to the country.
In other words - no, it's not accurate to say that the left is more violent than the right.
 

prizrak

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Note the date on this report, this is beyond out of date. Antifa only rose to prominence since Trump's election.

3555830

You are characterizing "antigovernment"
I legitimately don't understand this sentence

Additionally, you are only looking at acts of violence that are classified as terrorism, that would miss a large amount of violent acts that would fall under say rioting, or attacks against journalists or service people.
 

Blind_Io

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That should have been "mischaracterizing" autocorrect doesn't like it, apparently. So AntiFa, short for Anti-Fascist or Anti-Fascism, only became a thing when Trump got into the White House, huh? Now I wonder why a group that is opposed to fascists would suddenly surge after such an event....

Still, show me data that says the left if more violent than the right - you made the assertion, you need to support it.

EDIT: For more up to date information - this has been a trend since the 1990s and it continues today. Antifa is a tiny percentage of violence and terrorism compared to the far right.

https://icct.nl/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Koehler-Violence-and-Terrorism-from-the-Far-Right-February-2019.pdf (PDF Warning)
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/01/homegrown-terrorists-2018-were-almost-all-right-wing/581284/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/far-right-extremist-crimes-have-been-with-us-for-decades-11554463800 Hate crimes are fairly consistent, but terrorism has gone up.
This isn't just a problem in the US, with online communities, the effects of one attack are felt around the world - influencing the next. These far right groups and individuals find support and belonging in their communities. They typically share a feeling of being wronged in some way and blaming others for their situation. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/03/world/white-extremist-terrorism-christchurch.html

Attack my earlier source if you want, but it's consistent with other findings.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/03/magazine/FBI-charlottesville-white-nationalism-far-right.html

 
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mpicco

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You keep calling me a Trump supporter and yet the only policy of his I have ever supported was tax cuts...
Tax cuts have not shown any return on investment. Except if you're rich. Rich people are richer, yet again. Yay for Republicans and their golf club policies.

It seems to me the discussion is focusing on the wrong points:

Everybody is disputing over whether Trump is racist or not. But, in the end, does it matter? What he is doing in actions is giving a free hand to racism by not opposing it when it would matter.

Let's concentrate on the effects of Trump's actions instead, even on a broader sense, because on that it seems that we agree much, much more.
Of course it fucking matters. Godwin's law and all that but there's no better way to hammer the point home: Hitler had a long and filled history of talking shit about Jews before the actual killings started.

I'm tired of this "it's just words, not actions". Fuck that with a thousand dicks. Speaking is an action.
Did the saying 'the pen is mightier than the sword' come about just out of someone's sheer randomness? No. It's reality.

Before you even call me anti free speech: none of that. I love free speech. You can say whatever you want. But don't whine when your unfiltered shit brain spews out into Twitter and the whole world calls you out on it.
 
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prizrak

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That should have been "mischaracterizing" autocorrect doesn't like it, apparently.
Do you not consider attacks on ICE as being anti-government in nature?

So AntiFa, short for Anti-Fascist or Anti-Fascism, only became a thing when Trump got into the White House, huh? Now I wonder why a group that is opposed to fascists would suddenly surge after such an event....
Right because describing yourself in a certain way totally makes you that way... You know better than to suggest that they are fighting actual fascists.

Still, show me data that says the left if more violent than the right - you made the assertion, you need to support it.
While I concede that there seems more violence on the right side of the spectrum, however it does seem more accepted on the left. Portland PD doing basically nothing about Antifa. Hell a few of my own friends were saying that physically fighting nazis was a moral imperative.

I mean really when was the last time conservatives showed up to protest a liberal movie being shown in a campus movie theatre? Or to shut down a liberal speaker?

The ROI was negatively affected by the bad policy of starting trade wars, so it's not a very strong argument. Tax cuts were a good policy but it was an incomplete one, it should have been coupled with decreased spending and forcing corporations to repatriate their off shore money along with closing loopholes.

Hitler had a long and filled history of talking shit about Jews before the actual killings started.
You missed the part where he took over the government and was able to do all of these things. Trump is getting blocked at every turn by the checks and balances...
 

Blind_Io

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^ He didn't "take over the government" he was elected to power and all his moves to consolidate power were done through legal means.

Well, his reversal lasted about as long as expected:

"You know what I’m unhappy with? I’m unhappy with the fact that a congresswoman can hate our country, I’m unhappy with the fact that a congresswoman can say anti-Semitic things. I’m unhappy with the fact that a congresswoman — in this case, a different congresswoman — can call our country, and our people, garbage. That’s what I’m unhappy with. Those people in North Carolina, that stadium was packed, it was a record crowd and I could’ve filled it 10 times, as you know. Those are incredible people, those are incredible patriots. But I’m unhappy when a congresswoman goes and says, ‘I’m going to be the president’s nightmare.’ She’s going to be the president’s nightmare. She’s lucky to be where she is, let me tell you. And the things she has said are a disgrace to our country.”

Authoritarian playbook, Chapter 2: "I am the state, speaking against me is unpatriotic"
 

SirEdward

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I'm tired of this "it's just words, not actions". Fuck that with a thousand dicks. Speaking is an action.
Did the saying 'the pen is mightier than the sword' come about just out of someone's sheer randomness? No. It's reality.
You are not getting the point. I think Trump is mentally disturbed: he is an histrionic egomaniac and there is no way for you to define what he REALLY think or what he really is, as he would and will do ANYTHING to get attention, praise, wealth, power, admiration.

He will say ANYTHING, no matter if he believe it or not. He might, or he might not, you cannot know by simply listening to what he says, and chance are you cannot define him even by his actions, as he will do many, many things, if they get him what he wants.

Besides, it is fairly possible that he had never really thought about racism too much and he simply goes on with the tides and with what other people like to hear.

One thing is for sure, he knows that too much is too much, as approval will wane if he overstep certain boundaries it.

But it is not morality, it is gut instinct.

Before you even call me anti free speech: none of that. I love free speech. You can say whatever you want. But don't whine when your unfiltered shit brain spews out into Twitter and the whole world calls you out on it.
He will. Of course he will.

He will do anything that could grant him more approval and success. Especially if the return is short term.

Now stop screaming that Trump is racist, and focus on just words and actions.

Stop saying "Trump is racist", as his mind does not work in a normal, healthy way. You point out 100 times he was racist, an apologist will find 100 times he was not. Because the motor of his behaviour is somewhere else; rather say things like "this thing that Trump said is racist", as words can be pinpointed and agreed upon, sociopath behaviour cannot.
 

Blind_Io

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It absolutely can be, would you like me to post the diagnostic criteria before I head home for the weekend? My DSM-5 is right over there.
 

Blind_Io

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@SirEdward gets it, a lot of his behavior is misdirection and distraction.
I think that's attributing too much intelligence and planning to Trump, he just reacts in the moment, there's no thought, no plan; goldfish have a greater tactical mind.

What he loves is instant gratification, send a tweet while watching the news and see a "Breaking News!" banner pop up is what he lives for. He craves relevance above all things, that's why he adores dictators.
 

GRtak

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https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1769339001?__twitter_impression=true

Prosecutors weighed DOJ policy blocking indictment of a sitting president in closing Trump hush-money probe

The judgment by federal prosecutors in New York to take no further action in the wide-ranging inquiry tracks a decision earlier this year by former special counsel Robert Mueller, who cited the same Justice Department policy when he declined to make a determination about whether Trump's efforts to derail that investigation amounted to a crime.

The Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel concluded in 2000 that "a sitting President is constitutionally immune from indictment and criminal prosecution." That view has never been tested in court but is binding on federal prosecutors.


"Cohen's commission of two campaign finance crimes on the eve of the 2016 election for president of the United States struck a blow to one of the core goals of the federal campaign finance laws: transparency," prosecutors asserted prior to Cohen's sentencing.

In the same document, however, prosecutors indicated that Cohen was acting on behalf of Trump who they then-described in gauzy law enforcement vernacular as "Individual 1."

"The investigation is over," Trump attorney Jay Sekulow said Thursday. He declined to address whether the current Justice Department policy against prosecuting a sitting president blocked any further action contemplated by New York prosecutors.

The Justice Department did not respond to a request for comment.

But from a federal prison in upstate New York, Cohen continued to claim that his conviction should not mark the end of an investigation that has long shadowed the White House.

"I and members of The Trump Organization were directed by Mr. Trump to handle the Stormy Daniels matter; including making the hush money payment,” Cohen said in a statement Thursday. “The conclusion of the investigation exonerating The Trump Organization's role should be of great concern to the American people and investigated by Congress and the Department of Justice.”

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, D-Calif., said the unsealed documents bolstered Cohen's assertions.

"The inescapable conclusion from all of the public materials available now is that there was ample evidence to charge Donald Trump with the same criminal election law violations for which Michael Cohen pled guilty," Schiff said.
 

SirEdward

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It absolutely can be, would you like me to post the diagnostic criteria before I head home for the weekend? My DSM-5 is right over there.
AS little as it can help, without knowing the person well enough and without the necessary training, yes, why not. It would be very interesting.
 

mpicco

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You are not getting the point. I think Trump is mentally disturbed: he is an histrionic egomaniac and there is no way for you to define what he REALLY think or what he really is, as he would and will do ANYTHING to get attention, praise, wealth, power, admiration.
Well then there's two avenues of action here. He either is racist and therefor says racist stuff (I can't think anyone speaking in public would say something racist unless he thought of it, or is quoting someone else, which he isn't), or he's not mentally fit to govern.
Either way, this is not acceptable by anyone with a gram of moral fiber in their body.

Now his supporters are chanting "Send her back". First he says it was not a nice thing. Then he says it probably was cos those women said "America is garbage".
This from a president who based his whole campaign on 'Making America Great Again", implicitly saying it was not great.

The ROI was negatively affected by the bad policy of starting trade wars, so it's not a very strong argument. Tax cuts were a good policy but it was an incomplete one, it should have been coupled with decreased spending and forcing corporations to repatriate their off shore money along with closing loopholes.
More mental gymnastics mate. Have you heard of Occam's razor?
 

prizrak

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More mental gymnastics mate. Have you heard of Occam's razor?
I think you are the one doing mental gymnastics here. I explained to you my stance on the policy.
I think that's attributing too much intelligence and planning to Trump, he just reacts in the moment, there's no thought, no plan; goldfish have a greater tactical mind.
I suspect we will never know
 

mpicco

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I think you are the one doing mental gymnastics here. I explained to you my stance on the policy.
If a policy depends on other policies to work well as intended, then you can see it the whole bundle as the actual policy. It's like saying you agree with using hotdog buns to make a hotdog, but then put nails and a Rubik's cube as the things inside the bun. It doesn't make for an appealing hotdog, does it?
 
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