The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

prizrak

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If a policy depends on other policies to work well as intended, then you can see it the whole bundle as the actual policy. It's like saying you agree with using hotdog buns to make a hotdog, but then put nails and a Rubik's cube as the things inside the bun. It doesn't make for an appealing hotdog, does it?
I can’t think of any policy that works in a vacuum, after all things like opportunity cost exist. Any good policy can be ruined by a different policy with the ability to affect it.
Obamacare is a good example, it was meant to make health insurance more affordable for everyone, but it required a tax to be levied on those who didn’t sign up for any insurance in order to spread the costs more evenly among the population.
 

SirEdward

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He either is racist and therefor says racist stuff [...] or he's not mentally fit to govern.
That's an overstretched simplification (even if, by and large, it is true), and I say it as someone who is saying that Trump has mental issues since before his election.

On the whole, he shouldn't be there, because nobody with that kind of mental disorder should be POTUS. It is extremely dangerous and damaging on the long-term.

On the racist thing, it is impossible to know for sure (probably mild racist); on the not mentally fit, it depends:

Being one of the worst president in US history and generally bring more damage than good to the country doesn't mean not being fit to rule a country.

Incompetence and lack of a long-term strategical plan with clear goals does mean not being fit to rule (both of which are quite possibly lacking in Trump). But then again, Stalin or Hitler were quite capable to rule and generate long-term strategic changements, thus fit to rule, even if they were both murdering lunatics.

This is why I do not care about his (quite obvious lack of) competence, but on the fact that it is impossible to know why he does what he does, so there can be no trust on his actions and on their promised-but-lacking long-term positive effects.

And it shows.

But the point is not "him", the point is "what he does". That is what matters and where the focus should be, not on the undefinable, uncatchable eel that is the person.

Now his supporters are chanting "Send her back". First he says it was not a nice thing.
There you have it! The effects of his words are facts and cannot be denied (even if his words will try to).

Have you seen that, as soon as someone mentioned the effects that his words have on other people, even Priz agreed that this was not good?

It is because the man is undefinable, hidden behind countless masks, half of which he is not aware himself. His words, actions and the effects they have are tangible, clear, and for everyone to see.

Then he says it probably was cos those women said "America is garbage".
Of course. And then he will say it is because they oppose the sacred figure of the POTUS, and then that it was because some people are not that polite, and then that it is because they are trying to make him appear in a bad light...

Forget his excuses, focus on the facts.

And do not hate him, because hate brings to anger, and anger is what he will point out in you to say that it is not him that is a bad president, it's you who are not calm and who cannot think straight because you are too emotional.

Facts. Calm. Clear. You have to play where his mental tricks immediately and clearly appear as the BS they are.[/quote][/quote]
 

prizrak

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This from a president who based his whole campaign on 'Making America Great Again", implicitly saying it was not great.
I forgot to address that earlier, this was a brilliant move. Remember there was a lot of resentment of his predecessor (leaving alone reasons for it or whether it was warranted) who's campaign was "Change". Making america great again basically implied that the previous guy who did all this "changing" fucked it up and Trump will get us back to greatness.

Kellyann Conway really doesn't get enough credit for how she ran that campaign.
 

mpicco

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I can’t think of any policy that works in a vacuum, after all things like opportunity cost exist. Any good policy can be ruined by a different policy with the ability to affect it.
Obamacare is a good example, it was meant to make health insurance more affordable for everyone, but it required a tax to be levied on those who didn’t sign up for any insurance in order to spread the costs more evenly among the population.
Exactly. As far as lowering taxes, it's not like it's an always-good-idea. In the grand scheme of things, it was not a good choice nor was it needed, the economy was doing fairly well anyway, and it was the richer part of society who saw the most benefit. By contrast, you mention healthcare and spreading the cost. Which is something most would agree, is good.

I forgot to address that earlier, this was a brilliant move. Remember there was a lot of resentment of his predecessor (leaving alone reasons for it or whether it was warranted) who's campaign was "Change". Making america great again basically implied that the previous guy who did all this "changing" fucked it up and Trump will get us back to greatness.

Kellyann Conway really doesn't get enough credit for how she ran that campaign.
Do I even have to comment this? That's the type of thing you want to praise?
 

gaasc

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Immoral as you may consider it to be, she managed to tackle onto an incredibly fanatical segment which felt marginalized by the governing bodies increasing apathy and their policies which, to their eyes, seemed to favor people living in large urban complexes. The other main candidate had a lot of political baggage she could lean on for talking points and fringe parties haven't been statistically significant since Perot. When media outlets began classifying everyone who supported Trump as racists or ignorants instead of only focusing on policy and incorporating some of those points into their narrative, Kellyanne had all the fuel she needed to get trump on the white house; Irrespective of his narrative having holes so large you could drive a supertanker through.

Politics is nasty business. Time will tell if the players for this election cycle have learned anything about it. Personally, I don't believe this is the case.
 
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prizrak

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Do I even have to comment this? That's the type of thing you want to praise?
She was the first woman to have ever run a successful presidential campaign, regardless of how you feel about the platform or the man she helped put in office she had done something great.
 

mpicco

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She was the first woman to have ever run a successful presidential campaign, regardless of how you feel about the platform or the man she helped put in office she had done something great.
So fucking what? What does it matter if it's a man or a woman? Should I praise the first woman to run a ponzi scheme? Congratulations.
No. I don't care. Fuck her and fuck the results of her campaign.
 

gaasc

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So fucking what? What does it matter if it's a man or a woman? Should I praise the first woman to run a ponzi scheme? Congratulations.
No. I don't care. Fuck her and fuck the results of her campaign.
SEXIST! :p
 

prizrak

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A lot of it is debatable, could be previous administration enacting policy that don’t bear fruit until the next one. Could be just getting lucky with the economy, without do anything for it. This goes for both parties btw.
 

mpicco

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A lot of it is debatable, could be previous administration enacting policy that don’t bear fruit until the next one. Could be just getting lucky with the economy, without do anything for it. This goes for both parties btw.
Yeah I'm sure the Bush(es) humongous deficits were all due to previous policies. Not for starting illegal wars and ramping up the military spending to the stratosphere.

CNN said:
Trump made 61 false claims last week

President Donald Trump litters his public statements with false claims, from little exaggerations to big lies. Starting today, we'll bring you a fact check of all of them.
I'm guessing this won't matter, because, you know, alternative facts.
 

prizrak

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Yeah I'm sure the Bush(es) humongous deficits were all due to previous policies. Not for starting illegal wars and ramping up the military spending to the stratosphere.
You are taking specific examples and trying to apply them to a general concept. If you want to play that game, Clinton's repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act is one of the biggest causes behind 2008 recession*.

*http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877322,00.html

There are a lot of factors when it comes to how economy is doing and policy is only one of them, just look at the dotcom bubble of late 90s-early 00s, it fueled a massive growth followed by a huge drop when the bubble burst and had nothing to do with who was in office. This is before we get into the fact that there is Congress and the Fed both of which can make economic policy independent of POTUS.
 

mpicco

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Yeah prizrak it's all a coincidence buddy, whatever lets you sleep at night.
I love that link you provided. Tell me, what does it say towards the bottom of the page, right next to the word NEXT?

Hey @LeVeL , no collusion, no obstruction hm?

Mueller: "The President cannot be charged with a crime."

Congressman: "Could you charge the President with a crime after he left office?"

Mueller: "Yes."

Congressman: "You believe you could charge the President of the United States with Obstruction of Justice after he leaves office."

Mueller: "Yes."

Video
There we go. Clear enough?
 

prizrak

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Yeah prizrak it's all a coincidence buddy, whatever lets you sleep at night.
How about you provide some citations to support your assertion? I'm sure there are plenty since there is such a clear trend so should be rather easy for you...
I love that link you provided. Tell me, what does it say towards the bottom of the page, right next to the word NEXT?
It's completely irrelevant to the actual point I was making, to reiterate - policies put forth by one administration can take years to affect the economy. GSA repeal took nearly a decade to affect the economy and spanning an entire two term presidency.

I am not rooting for any political team, I am showing you that economics are nowhere near as simple as you want to make them but all you want to read into it is some sort of a political allegiance that I don't have.

Just to make it abundantly clear, I didn't pick GSA repeal as some sort of attack on Democrats or even Clinton himself, it is simply the best known example from modern times, had it been a Republican POTUS that repealed the act I would have cited them.

Again I don't care who is in office, I don't care if they worship at the alter of the donkey or the elephant, I don't care if they are black or orange, I care about the specific policies they put forth.
If Congress would get off their ass, they can impeach.
They aren't going to impeach, this whole proceeding is an attempt to discredit Trump prior to the 2020 election. And before you try to accuse me of conspiracy theories, this is the opinion my anti-Trump D supporting friends gave me when I asked them.
 
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