The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

jack_christie

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Giuliani pushed Trump administration to grant a visa to a Ukrainian official promising dirt on Democrats

Giuliani requested a visa for former Ukrainian prosecutor-general Viktor Shokin to travel to the United States. Shokin had been pushed out of his position as Ukraine's top prosecutor in 2016 after pressure from Western leaders, including Biden, over concerns that he was not pursuing corruption cases.

Giuliani has previously told CNN he wanted to interview Shokin in person because the Ukrainian promised to reveal dirt on Democrats.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/10/18/politics/giuliani-shokin-state-visa-george-kent/index.html


To Win Giuliani’s Help, Oligarch’s Allies Pursued Biden Dirt
  • Associates of Ukraine’s Firtash procured witness statement
  • U.S. law forbids foreign assistance in political campaigns
Dmitry Firtash, charged with conspiracy by the U.S. and living in Vienna, shuffled lawyers in July to add Joe diGenova and Victoria Toensing,

DiGenova and Toensing have billed Firtash about $1 million for their work, one of the people said. That includes costs for Lev Parnas, a Giuliani associate
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-18/to-win-giuliani-s-help-oligarch-s-allies-pursued-biden-dirt

What on earth have they promised Firtash that's worth so much.....


Ukraine Quid Pro Quo Admission
@3.30 - comparison of Trump v Mulvaney

 
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GRtak

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Trump's only consistentcy, is his inconsistency.


I wonder if this was his idea, or if foreign diplomats were asking about the bed bug problem.
 

gaasc

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wait, do you want him to host it there? your message reads accusatory.
 

GRtak

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No, I don't. I was pointing out that our president made a snap decision, and had to reverse it because he got called on his B.S..
 

GRtak

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So you want him to continue with every decision he makes even if it's objectively a bad one?
He was called on this when he was merely considering that location. He ignored that it was clearly going to be in violation of the Emoluments Clause.

He has already violated it several times, so why change where it is going to be? He flip flops on issues all the time. This is part of why he is the worst president ever.
 

prizrak

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He was called on this when he was merely considering that location. He ignored that it was clearly going to be in violation of the Emoluments Clause.

He has already violated it several times, so why change where it is going to be? He flip flops on issues all the time. This is part of why he is the worst president ever.
So if he follows through on something you are against he is a terrible president and abusing his power. If he doesn’t follow through because of external pressure he is a flip flop and a terrible president.
You do see how this is an unwinnable scenario right?
 

calvinhobbes

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Isn’t the point that no decision in favour of his own establishment should ever have been made?

Oh, and congratulations to the person who convinced Trump that the decision had to be changed. Whoever they are, they’re a miracle worker.
 

SirEdward

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You do see how this is an unwinnable scenario right?
Three years in the Office and he still makes these massive blunders.

Is what he has done so far enough to judge him a terrible US President, or does the benefit of the doubt depends on how much people want something to be true and extends indefinitely for the right people?

I ask because I worked in places where 10 lost euro could get you a severe warning and a bad word could get you out of the job at the end of the contract, while this man makes massive, costly mistakes in a high-responsibility job and people are still sweetly apologetic...

It's incredible how double a standard can be.
 

GRtak

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So if he follows through on something you are against he is a terrible president and abusing his power. If he doesn’t follow through because of external pressure he is a flip flop and a terrible president.
You do see how this is an unwinnable scenario right?
He decided to do this from the moment it crossed his mind.

He is a terrible person, so he is also a terrible president.

I have not seen any wise moves out of him yet. He put himself in this unwinnable situation. He then starts Tweeting about how it is all the Dems fault.

This most stable genius is anything but.
 

prizrak

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Three years in the Office and he still makes these massive blunders.

Is what he has done so far enough to judge him a terrible US President, or does the benefit of the doubt depends on how much people want something to be true and extends indefinitely for the right people?

I ask because I worked in places where 10 lost euro could get you a severe warning and a bad word could get you out of the job at the end of the contract, while this man makes massive, costly mistakes in a high-responsibility job and people are still sweetly apologetic...

It's incredible how double a standard can be.
I never said he was a great president, but I do have to mention that how good/bad president was is usually judged after their term ends, if only because some policies take time to really kick in so to speak.
 

SirEdward

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I never said he was a great president, but I do have to mention that how good/bad president was is usually judged after their term ends, if only because some policies take time to really kick in so to speak.
This is exactly the double standard I was talking about, and it really shows in the difference between him and other people: you could get fired for less than what he has done multiple times, for example if you embarassed the company you work for in public, yet he can modify a map with a marker, ridiculously trying to refuse his own previous mistake caused by brutal ignorance and arrogance, and nothing happens; he can try to do something blatantly against the rules because of a massive conflict of interests like the resort thing for the summit, he can embarass the US in front of the world by sacrificing an ally publicly and appearing the good puppy of a foreign authoritarian leader, he can lie without pause every time he has to say something, and you should wait to judge him...

It's like watching the Frank Grimes-Homer Simposn episode all over again... :-D

Well, of course some of the things he does will only unfold in some years, so for those things we will have to wait, but the rest is already more than enough to clearly see that he is a worse President than both the Roosevelts, JFK, Bush Sr. and Clinton, just to keep to those whose action I know a little, arguably worse than Bush Jr, the first Obama at least and he is competing for the title of worse President from the twentieth century onwards at least. I am not extra-sure he will win, but he sure is a strong competitor for that award.

And most of the problem is you have a President with a mental illness that forces him to consider himself better than anyone else and unable to see his own shortcomings, to not being able understand or judge himself properly, to avoid admitting any mistakes, to always put himself before the Country, to being impatient, ignorant, unable to think long-term or keep his word...

To know that a man like this has the role of POTUS is cringeworthy, and to see his actions becoming the burning mess they are becoming is not being judgemental, it's being realisic.

This is going where it was clear it would go. 2016: "Let's hope we are mistaken". 2019: "Nope, we were right".

So the US people should look in the mirror and ask: "who the heck have we elected, and why has this happened?". You should learn from mistakes, not try to pretend they weren't mistakes.
 
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prizrak

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This is exactly the double standard I was talking about, and it really shows in the difference between him and other people: you could get fired for less than what he has done multiple times,
It all depends on what level you are in the company, if you are high up enough or valued enough you ain’t getting fired for dumb shit. Also this is government we are talking about, it’s always been a shit show, Trump’s version of it is just more public.
 

Blind_Io

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So you want him to continue with every decision he makes even if it's objectively a bad one?
It's addressing his motivation. Trump is still running his business from the White House and using his position to enrich himself, either directly or indirectly. He didn't care about public sentiment regarding hosting the G7 at his resort - it was only when Congress passed the THUG Act to prevent any government money being spent there that Trump reversed his decision. It was always about making money, nothing else.
 

prizrak

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It was always about making money, nothing else.
Same as every other politician ever really.
when Congress passed the THUG Act to prevent any government money being spent there that Trump reversed his decision.
So the checks and balances are working then?
 
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Blind_Io

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No. Just stop with that shit. Trump is not "the same as any other politician" and this administration is far from normal. Trump is the most openly corrupt president his history, he makes Nixon look like a choir boy. Aside from treating the office like a reality show, he has no platform, no plan, and no cohesive strategy. He's had more turnover of advisers than any president in history, and he is the sole reason why our relationship with Turkey has essentially evaporated before our eyes, leaving a power vacuum in Syria, handing the region to Russia, and risking the strategic deployment of our nuclear weapons in Turkey.

Even the GOP has openly turned against him in the past couple weeks, behind closed doors, they know that Trump is killing their party.
 

gaasc

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Now now, some of them are in it for the power, or for the ability of dicking people about or to have a spot on the history books, irrespective of what it actually says about them.

I do agree about Trump not being the same as any other politician. And I am glad about the amount of scrutiny he has gotten. I am concerned that the lessons about everything that has happened leading up to it are not sticking though.
 
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