The Trump Presidency - how I stopped worrying and learned to love the Hair

SirEdward

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The US have managed to cover themselves in shame, to alienate ally upon ally, to give their enemy good reasons to hate them, to appear cowards AND ungrateful AND uncaring AND aggressive AND arrogant, all banded together. Because they are led by a man who is ignorant, arrogant, selfish, liar, touchy and disrespectful of its own Country.

Trump is plunging the US, and the rest of the world with it, into instability. For what reason, exactly? Another selfish one?

It's basically like the wet, paranoid dream of countless left-wing conspiracy theorists in the last decades are coming true.
 

calvinhobbes

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”don’t misquote me” and “I have already said...” yet again
You may not wish for an invasion of Iran, you may not believe that there’s a war between the US and Iran (a proxy war at the moment), but as long as you support and defend Trump, none of that matters. The man is a walking, talking foreign policy disaster no longer waiting to happen and has taken the US government to the level of the Iranian theocrats, which should be absolutely shocking, but isn’t.

Keep harping on about Obama this and Clinton that, all it does is prove the point that Trump is magnitudes worse than any of those two’s blunders.
 

Blind_Io

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This may come as a shock, but I don't agree with everything Obama did - I don't know why this is hard for you to understand, you keep bringing up Obama's mistakes and I keep saying the same thing. He's not some infallible icon who can do no wrong in my eyes and I refuse to defend his mistakes. You, however, defend Trump no matter what he does; you mischaracterize, lie, and selectively cite whatever you can to make it seem like Trump has done no wrong. He has lied, cheated, stolen, and corrupted the office for personal financial and political gain. He has openly practiced nepotism, violated our nation's security on multiple occasions, and now has thrown global security into question yet again. Still you defend him.

Obama did not act under the War Powers Resolution in Syria, Libya, or Yemen and I was absolutely against him committing troops without the consent of Congress - just as I am against Trump's actions today. And yet, despite Obama not following the War Powers Act, he still managed to work with our allies as part of a coalition and not endanger global security. Trump has both violated the War Powers Act and alienated our allies while sacrificing global security.

So let's turn this around - you are quick to bring up Obama, thinking it's some kind of a trap I will be lured into. I'm looking forward to the day when you are as quick to hold Trump accountable in the same way you do for Obama.

Unfortunately, today is not that day. You had your chance, even if you were to try to do so now, it would ring hollow and disingenuine.
 

Blind_Io

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You've disagreed with him on minor issues, then defend him or justify his actions in the same breath.

Even now, with the middle east in chaos because of Trump's actions, you continue to justify, deflect, and rationalize. Even this is a deflection, picking one thing to argue about that distracts from the issue at hand - Trump is so unhinged Congress is considering legislation that would fundamentally shift the balance of power among the three branches to a degree not seen since Nixon.
 

GRtak

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You seem to struggle with reading comprehension. I didn't justify anything. All I said was that if Iran targets Trump properties they'll simply be killing more Americans, just like they have in the past. It's not an argument, it's not a justification - just an observation.

You are trying to aleviate, or dismiss the consequences of this assination by saying that nothing has changed. Just a couple of weeks ago Iran was killing it's citizens in the street and now the country is uniffied and chanting Deaath to America in the streets. This act has also created a rift with a country that has become an ally.
 

Blind_Io

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When the leader of Hezbollah is more reasonable than the President of the United States...
 

SirEdward

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The best weapon to take away support from the US is to show how much of a pacific person you are compared to the warmongering orange.

Kim Jong Un did that, now Hezbollah is doing it.

But yes, If they told me, 10 years ago, that I would have gotten to a point where Hezbollah would appear more reasonable and peaceful than the US President, I would not have believed it.
 

DanRoM

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You guys are literally siding with terrorists over POTUS. #TDS
There are two terrorist sides here. You side with one, others with the other, at least if at the moment that other side seems to be the more reasonable.
You are so far sunk into American exceptionalism that you can't grasp the reality that the US is not per se on the right side.
 

DanRoM

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US soldiers have killed a whole bunch of people in many countries on orders of US political leaders without actually being at war with these countries. The US is very busy killing people without any due process and out of its jurisdiction anyway. In other words, the US kills people in foreign countries without international legal justification all the time. It does that to further their own political goals. That is terrorism.
By your own definition, you should also be fine with certain US citizens, namely military and political leaders, being murdered by any number of countries.

Soleimani was the Iranian counterpart to... what? The CIA Director of Operations, the head of the Army and the Secretary of Defense merged into one person? By all accounts, Iran (among other countries) would be well justified to kill those US officials, if we apply the same logic.


Just for the record: I do think nobody is justified committing such a murder. Not the US, nor anyone else.
 

calvinhobbes

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our embassy (which is considered US soil)?
No, it really is not. It is Iraqi territory which has been set aside for the use of the US embassy, just like any other embassy.

As for the US being better than Iran, the Iraqis would evidently beg to differ. And as long as your president is threatening to commit war crimes, your government is, in this regard, no better than ISIS or the Taliban.

He was a high-ranking official in a tyrannical dictatorial regime that commits atrocious human rights violations on a daily basis.
Which was considered fine and dandy by the US and its allies when the Shah was doing it. And is A-OK in Saudi Arabia. And just about everywhere else that didn’t annoy US jingoists, no matter how many decades ago.
 
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Blind_Io

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@LeVeL You have a very selective memory. Maybe you forgot the time we overthrew the democratically elected moderate leader of Iran and installed an Islamic dictator, or the time we shot down an Iranian airliner in Iranian airspace killing 290 people (including 66 children) and then refused to apologise. Going to a wider scope, we invaded Iraq on the lie of WMDs and a connection to 9/11, resulting in the deaths of civilians conservatively estimated at nearly a quarter million.

As for us not imprisoning people, I guess you forgot about the child concentration camps, where kids are separated from their parents and prisoners are denied medical treatment.

Yeah, we don't do it the same as Iran, we just do it differently. I get that you love the US, but we haven't been the "good guy" in a very, very long time. At best, we are the anti-hero who occasionally does a good thing when it serves our interests.
 
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