Traffic violations in Europe

bone

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they do take a copy of your drivers license as well ;)
 

prizrak

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Yeah but they can't charge your driver's license and I highly doubt anyone is going to start extradition proceedings over a few traffic tickets :p Not to mention that they'd have no idea what a fake license from some random fly over state would look like. Hell back in the early 00s NJ license was a laminated piece of cardboard with your picture on it. Take a guess what was the most popular fake ID to get into clubs was during that time.
 

SirEdward

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LeVeL;n3552956 said:
Ha, parking lines... Rome had white, yellow, blue, and red lines - no way a foreigner is figuring out what's what.
Well, yellow lines means "don't park", they usually are for disabled parkings (you'll see the icon painted on the road together with it), deliveries, buses, taxis, police, whatever. Anyway, if you can park on them, you know it. If you're uncertain, you probably can't.

Blue lines are the basic pay-to-park lines. You are lucky when you find them because you can't go wrong: you have to pay (unless you are disabled or you have an electric car, but that depends on the municipality blah blah blah, so when in doubt, pay).

White lines may be treacherous: if they are in an areas with blue lines nearby, it means they are meant for resident people and you can't park on them; if they are in areas without blue lines nearby, it means they are free parking. Anyway, after parking, look for the blue sign with a white P on it: if it doesn't have any writings on the panel or just below it, it means you can park for free, otherwise, follow the indications. Also, if you see the paying columns, you probably have to pay.

As I said, the municipalities know they can lose in front of a judge if parking areas aren't legally marked, so if you have to pay, it will be written.

Red lines... I have never seen those anywhere near where I live. I'd avoid them.

Pink lines, they're for ladies, mostly pregnant. If you don't have a pregnant lady with you, avoid them (to know exactly which kind of lady the pink parking spot is addressed to, look at the sign).

--

Last but not least, you have to check the restricted areas around where you drive. If the line is blue and you pay, but you are in a restriceted area, either you are allowed to enter (and then you know what you have to put on your dashboard to be ok) or you don't park because you'll get a ticket, no matter what.
 

prizrak

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SirEdward;n3552995 said:
Well, yellow lines means "don't park", they usually are for disabled parkings (you'll see the icon painted on the road together with it), deliveries, buses, taxis, police, whatever. Anyway, if you can park on them, you know it. If you're uncertain, you probably can't.

Blue lines are the basic pay-to-park lines. You are lucky when you find them because you can't go wrong: you have to pay (unless you are disabled or you have an electric car, but that depends on the municipality blah blah blah, so when in doubt, pay).

White lines may be treacherous: if they are in an areas with blue lines nearby, it means they are meant for resident people and you can't park on them; if they are in areas without blue lines nearby, it means they are free parking. Anyway, after parking, look for the blue sign with a white P on it: if it doesn't have any writings on the panel or just below it, it means you can park for free, otherwise, follow the indications. Also, if you see the paying columns, you probably have to pay.

As I said, the municipalities know they can lose in front of a judge if parking areas aren't legally marked, so if you have to pay, it will be written.

Red lines... I have never seen those anywhere near where I live. I'd avoid them.

Pink lines, they're for ladies, mostly pregnant. If you don't have a pregnant lady with you, avoid them (to know exactly which kind of lady the pink parking spot is addressed to, look at the sign).

--

Last but not least, you have to check the restricted areas around where you drive. If the line is blue and you pay, but you are in a restriceted area, either you are allowed to enter (and then you know what you have to put on your dashboard to be ok) or you don't park because you'll get a ticket, no matter what.
Dat's sexist!
 

SirEdward

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prizrak;n3553004 said:
Dat's sexist!
Actually... some women here say it is!

Not the pink stripes dedicated to pregnant women or mothers with babies, of course...

But in some places, parking areas had been painted with pink stripes to celebrate women and their difficulties and whatever... and women protested that those kind of initiatives actually helped in treating them as an inferior species that needs to be protected.

And somehow, I must say they have a point on this. Parking areas are a commodity: dedicating some to just half of the population (without any further relevant reasons) isn't just sexist towards women, treating them as endangered species, but also towards men, who still need to find a free parking spot like women do.

Italy is still ok, though, in South Korea parking spots for women only were (or still are?) bigger than the normal ones... Now that's truly sexist (whatever the behavioural averages might tell).
 

prizrak

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SirEdward;n3553017 said:
Actually... some women here say it is!

Not the pink stripes dedicated to pregnant women or mothers with babies, of course...

But in some places, parking areas had been painted with pink stripes to celebrate women and their difficulties and whatever... and women protested that those kind of initiatives actually helped in treating them as an inferior species that needs to be protected.

And somehow, I must say they have a point on this. Parking areas are a commodity: dedicating some to just half of the population (without any further relevant reasons) isn't just sexist towards women, treating them as endangered species, but also towards men, who still need to find a free parking spot like women do.

Italy is still ok, though, in South Korea parking spots for women only were (or still are?) bigger than the normal ones... Now that's truly sexist (whatever the behavioural averages might tell).
Considering how my wife parks the Xterra... I agree with the Koreans :p (though I would always park in women's spots to minimize dinging possibilities. I do wonder how one can enforce that, unless you see someone get in/out of the car you have no way of knowing who the driver is.
 

LeVeL

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Just got an email about a FIFTH violation. No clue what this one is supposed to be for.
 

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LeVeL;n3553119 said:
Just got an email about a FIFTH violation. No clue what this one is supposed to be for.
what does it say? surely there has to be some details?
 

SirEdward

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prizrak;n3553019 said:
[...]I do wonder how one can enforce that, unless you see someone get in/out of the car you have no way of knowing who the driver is.
Do they have to check under the car around the rear axle area to see a car's gender? Like with dogs?


LeVeL;n3553119 said:
Just got an email about a FIFTH violation. No clue what this one is supposed to be for.
Ouch... Any details?
 

bone

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i must say it's starting to become quite an achievement! :lol:
how many days were you there?
 

LeVeL

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This one says (personal details redacted):

Dear Mr/Mrs XXX,
We'd like to inform you that we have been notified a traffic fine (nr XXX), committed with the vehicle with plate XXX rented by you on 14/06/2018 14.33.

According to what mentioned by the authorities, the breach has been committed on 20/06/2018 15.39 in/by COMUNE DI ARIANO NEL POLESINE- SERV. P.L. CONVENZIONATO INSULA ADRIANA..

According to the Italian Highway Code, we have sent your personal data to the authorities which will send the payment request directly to the address you have provided at the time of rental. For more information about the penalty, please apply directly to the competent authorities, upon receipt of the notification.

According to the article 4.C of our rental conditions, we are charging you eu 48,80 for each report received for administrative expenses.

If you wish to get in touch with us, please go to www.locautorent.com and log into the Customer Service area with your personal data.

Best regards
Customer Service
Locauto Rent Spa
​​​​​No clue what the alleged violation was. I do know that I've only ever paid one ticket in the US so for me to rack up five (and counting) in a week is quite a feat.
 

mpicco

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And they charge you 50 dollars for admin purposes, you're already up to 5? Hmmm....
 

SirEdward

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LeVeL;n3553123 said:
This one says (personal details redacted):

​​​​​No clue what the alleged violation was. I do know that I've only ever paid one ticket in the US so for me to rack up five (and counting) in a week is quite a feat.
For sure, I'd hold any payment until proof of the violation has arrived.
 

LeVeL

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Got documentation on three of the five. For two of them it's a slip from Safo Sistemi, which appears to be some kind of vendor - certainly not the police. For the third I have what appears to be actual police paperwork from some tiny village near Venice that claims that I was doing 81.5kph in a 70kph zone - for the Americans, that's basically 50mph in a 44mph zone. Still no word on the other two. I'm guessing that this is what the world of speed cameras is like. No cop in the US would pull you over for that speed and if they did it would probably not hold up in court just given the margin of error between my speedometer and the radar gun. Anyways, I personally still have not been contacted by the authorities in any way.

Also, the rental agreement has a clause that says "renter shall pay lessor ... after the car drop off: all expenses referred to any traffic fines, unpaid tolls and park-tickets not paid during the rental, other than management fees, and any anounts deriving from other services used by renter, as indicated in Special Rental Conditions." It literally excludes management fees, while their email says I'm being charged an "administrative expense". What a racket.
 

thevictor390

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I'm convinced I got two camera flashes in France but I have yet to hear anything from the rental company or otherwise... what a terrible system. If you don't realize you're doing something wrong how the hell are you supposed to fix the behavior?
 

LeVeL

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Number 6 just came in, I shit you not. Predictably without any supporting documentation.
 

SirEdward

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LeVeL;n3553319 said:
Got documentation on three of the five. For two of them it's a slip from Safo Sistemi, which appears to be some kind of vendor - certainly not the police.
Safo Sistemi is a fleet manager, so it probably has to do with the fact that the fine was issued in their name and they are just requiring you to pay. Still, there should be info on -what- exactly was the problem. Is there? What happened? Is there any photografical evidence?

For the third I have what appears to be actual police paperwork from some tiny village near Venice that claims that I was doing 81.5kph in a 70kph zone - for the Americans, that's basically 50mph in a 44mph zone. Still no word on the other two. I'm guessing that this is what the world of speed cameras is like. No cop in the US would pull you over for that speed and if they did it would probably not hold up in court just given the margin of error between my speedometer and the radar gun.
Your real speed was actually 86,5: what you see indicated in the fine has already been discounted a 5% or a minimum of 5kph from the real speed. Your speedo was probably indicating 90 kph, given the margin they have.

It is pretty standard for a speed camera to issue a ticket like this, and usually the camera was correctly indicated and everything was in order from a legal point of view. This doesn't mean the road was unsafe at 90 rather than 70, but it means that the law allows (usually -requires-) for the limit in that place to be that low, usually because of lateral or private roads, or crossings, or whatever. Italy is packed full of things that make the limit go down.

The only way to avoid this is to show that the camera or the limit weren't indicated or that the device had not been officially checked and approved for use.

Anyways, I personally still have not been contacted by the authorities in any way.
And you probably won't, beside the letters and the notifications of tickets. This is not just Italy, I think is usual in Europe (France does similar, but easier to understand).

Also, the rental agreement has a clause that says "renter shall pay lessor ... after the car drop off: all expenses referred to any traffic fines, unpaid tolls and park-tickets not paid during the rental, other than management fees, and any anounts deriving from other services used by renter, as indicated in Special Rental Conditions." It literally excludes management fees, while their email says I'm being charged an "administrative expense".
I sense a possible mistranslation here. It seems like it was "tutte le spese inerenti a qualsiasi contravvenzione [...] non pagate durante la locazione, oltre alle spese di segreteria e ogni altra somma derivante da altri servizi..."

If that is not the case, "managment fees" and "administrative expenses" may well be two different things: "management fees" being what the company is paying to send you all the paperwork and "administrative expenses" being what the public administration is paying to send you all the paperwork. It is standard practice (and very hated) to being legally required to pay "administrative expenses" other than the amount of the ticket. For example, a standard parking fine is something like "28€ plus 6€ for administrative expenses, for a total of 34€".

You should check whether those expenses are the same that are excluded in the contract or are different.

What a racket.
It depends: if you actually are guilty of the violations, the tickets are not a racket, rather standard practice. Life for drivers here can be very difficult.

I can help you understanding if you have been victim of somthing different from what I have to endure, but for that, I need to know -what-, -where-, -how-.

---

thevictor390;n3553320 said:
I'm convinced I got two camera flashes in France but I have yet to hear anything from the rental company or otherwise... what a terrible system. If you don't realize you're doing something wrong how the hell are you supposed to fix the behavior?
Good question. France will send things to you. It will take time but it will be easier to pay than in Italy. To see the picture, however, you should send copy of the registration certificate of the car and of your ID card to them, in a standard white envelope. I kid you not.
 
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ninjacoco

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LOL, my turn, different country (Germany).

Sixt sent me a letter with the police documentation from Karlsruhe that I was 6 kph over—86 kph in an 80 kph zone. The fine's only 10 euros, but Sixt's administration fee is 25 euros.

Boo middlemen, to all of this. Just send me the damn ticket.
 

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I had to cancel the booking I made at the last minute because I don’t have a credit card. Cost me a little more for the alternative that would take a debit card for payment and the deposit but I ended up with Europcar so hopefully, as long as I behave myself, no dramas after we get home.

And i I paid an extra £15 for the insurance that covers absolutely everything so I’m covered other than any traffic violations.
 

MWF

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I had to cancel the booking I made at the last minute because I don’t have a credit card. Cost me a little more for the alternative that would take a debit card for payment and the deposit but I ended up with Europcar so hopefully, as long as I behave myself, no dramas after we get home.

And i I paid an extra £15 for the insurance that covers absolutely everything so I’m covered other than any traffic violations.
 
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