Traffic violations in Europe

CrzRsn

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MWF;n3553519 said:
And i I paid an extra £15 for the insurance that covers absolutely everything so I’m covered other than any traffic violations.
Note to self: get violation insurance for Ringmeet 2019
 

narf

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No such thing. MWF's insurance works fine for anything other than any traffic violations.
 

CrzRsn

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Oh I read that wrong. Frankly I was surprised to see a "I'm covered ... any traffic violations"

Missed the critical words in the middle :bangin:
 

narf

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Yeah :lol: such an insurance would probably be deemed sittenwidrig here (unconscionable conduct), just like how my employer cannot cover traffic fines on the company car.
 

MWF

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Managed to negotiate the Strada Della Ferra today without incident other than a slightly queasy stepdaughter in the back of the Punto by the time I finished.

I’ve driven other roads that are better but at the same time I had a huge grin on my face and it proved once again what we have mostly agreed on FG Roadtrips that it’s not the car but the road that is important. That said I’ve got to know the little Fiat a lot better after today and I have to say that for a budget car with a slightly asthmatic diseasel up front it’s surprisingly good to drive.
 

LeVeL

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Got an actual letter from the Italian rozzers for one of the violations, the speed one. Had a link to see photo evidence and all the details. Fair is fair, I'll pay it. Still no clue how in the world those mad Italians don't get daily tickets for speeding like utter lunatics...
 

SirEdward

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LeVeL;n3553694 said:
Got an actual letter from the Italian rozzers for one of the violations, the speed one. Had a link to see photo evidence and all the details. Fair is fair, I'll pay it. Still no clue how in the world those mad Italians don't get daily tickets for speeding like utter lunatics...
Was it a fixed camera or a mobile police position?

Many do get tickets constantly, particularly the most spirited. Many others are driving along in roads they know well, so they know where the fixed cameras are and slow down for the camera then accelerate again right after it. Or they are calmer where they know police might be waiting.

Keep in mind that the police might overlook small violations in speed if the car was moving along with the traffic and was not dangerous (I stress "might"), whereas fixed cameras, if active, will shoot everything.

Another thing is that cameras may not be working all the time. But there are some that are specifically placed to rake up tickets, and there you see people slamming on the brakes.

In general, however, speed limits in Italy are -low-; not in a general sense, but in many specific spots or roads, for reasons tied to the laws regulating them, the limits are often way lower than safety requires.

So, many people speed up until they deem it safe (so, technically, they speed, even in cases where their speed is not actually dangerous), and since there are so many spots with this problem, they can't be all monitored all the time. Most of them are never, particularly those where the higher speed people do is actually safe.

This also has some positive effects; the bulk of traffic self-regulates to speeds that are -actually- rather safe, compared to what they could be. If the road is twisty and dangerous, people will indeed slow down to a "safe" speed. I stress "safe" because this will never be as safe as it could be with a minimum of smart thinking or good limiting, but as safe as the common mind of the masses will think is acceptable.

Another golden rule is to know -how much- to speed. 10+ kph over and you lose points on your licence, 40+ kph over and they suspend your driving licence, so many people keep in those ranges.

Again, the police has little fundings, so they can't cover everything, plus if they did the'd get a revolt because of the very low limits.

The drawback is that people doesn't look at speed limits anymore and evaluate the road according to -their own- judgement, which in these times of hectic and stressful life means many people still speed up more than they should, or refuse to slow down. The stressed mind is dangerously oblivious.

Last but not least, average speed has increased in the last fifteen years and is keeping increasing, because cars are more and more quieter, powerful, faster, big. But this is reaching physical limits.

This is why, for example, in the first day you get rain after a long period of dry weather you'll see many people crashed in roundabouts, bends and the like, because they kept confidence with dry weather and they kept the same speed (stress, hectic life, obliviousness) -they- did judge safe even when the rain gets a little wet and dirty with the residues of the dry period.
 

LeVeL

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So the ticket/letter says that if I pay within 5 days of "the notification" I get a 30% reduction in the fine but if I pay more than 60 days later then it almost triples. Well, as far as I can tell, they are considering the "notification" date to be June 26, a few days after I was caught - it's been almost 90 days and I just got this letter now!!! I can only pay by wire transfer so... what amount do they expect to see?

Also - they sent me a form to fill out because I earned 3 points on my license. If I fail to fill out the form, they charge me another fine up to 1143 Euro. I don't have any sort of European license so what gives?

Seriously starting to consider not complying with any of this and just not driving if I ever go back to Italy.
 
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bone

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you might get stopped at customs when you try to enter the country again
 

SirEdward

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LeVeL;n3553750 said:
So the ticket/letter says that if I pay within 5 days of "the notification" I get a 30% reduction in the fine but if I pay more than 60 days later then it almost triples. Well, as far as I can tell, they are considering the "notification" date to be June 26, a few days after I was caught - it's been almost 90 days and I just got this letter now!!! I can only pay by wire transfer so... what amount do they expect to see?
This is beureaucracy at its best. They applied the same laws as we have here, verbatim, even if that doesn't really make sense abroad.

Technically, the "notification" (what is the right word in English, BTW?) is the day you -signed- to the post office courier who brought you the letter or the day you -signed- to retrieve the letter at the Town Hall offices. Or the day the police directly issued the ticket to you. If you don't retrieve it, the notification day is 10 days after the post office (or the Town Hall) notified you that they have some letter for you to retrieve.

The "notification" must be made within 90 days from the day they -identified the violation-. It means that if they take two months to shuffle through all the pictures, that's when the 90 days start.

Let's get back to us; from the day of the "notification", you have 5 days at discount rate or you get an extra amount to pay after 60 days.

This is basically working (more or less) when you deal with people living in Italy, but it is clearly not working with foreigners. And in your case there is another catch.

You see, technically they have to notify the ticket to the -owner- of the car. The owner being the rental company, they have done it on June 26. The rental company then took another amount of time to notify to you. Then you are in a situation where if you want to have access to the pictures, you will pass the 60 days mark. Somehing similar happened to me with my ticket from France, so it's not uncommon.

Also - they sent me a form to fill out because I earned 3 points on my license. If I fail to fill out the form, they charge me another fine up to 1143 Euro. I don't have any sort of European license so what gives?
That's also standard practice... for people with a European licence at least. I don't know if this translates into something for an international licence. If it doesn't, you may as well say it was you driving. If this translates into some problems with you... then you decide.

Seriously starting to consider not complying with any of this and just not driving if I ever go back to Italy.
They are just treating you the same way they are treating us, with all the absurdities law can generate. If this won't affect you (which I don't know), you may as well discard it. There is also the possibility that the rental car company will have to pay it.

As bone said, though, check if there may be problems for you if you get back to Europe, particularly if the case where the car rental company will have to pay themselves.

Needless to say, you will be blacklisted by that car company, so check if the blacklist is common for all of them or not.
 

LeVeL

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SirEdward;n3553754 said:
Technically, the "notification" (what is the right word in English, BTW?) is the day you -signed- to the post office courier who brought you the letter or the day you -signed- to retrieve the letter at the Town Hall offices. Or the day the police directly issued the ticket to you. If you don't retrieve it, the notification day is 10 days after the post office (or the Town Hall) notified you that they have some letter for you to retrieve.
I never signed for this letter - the instructions are in Italian so my post office had no idea that a signature was required. Guess the 5 day period hasn't started yet :tease: Maybe I'll sign it 4 days before the statue or limitations runs out :tease:
 

SirEdward

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LeVeL;n3553756 said:
I never signed for this letter - the instructions are in Italian so my post office had no idea that a signature was required. Guess the 5 day period hasn't started yet :tease: Maybe I'll sign it 4 days before the statue or limitations runs out :tease:
The rental car compay -did- sign, so the notification started when they accepted the letter. Beureaucracy is inescapable
 

LeVeL

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When it's literally impossible for me to pay the fine within the specified time frame, that's not bureaucracy - that's a scam. I'll shoot an email to the address on the letter I received tonight and see what they say.

As far as the points go, the US embassy website indicates that instead of getting an international drivers license you can just have your US license and an Italian translation of it, which is what I did. Can't wait to be on the hook for driving without a license now...


I've read that the statue of limitations is 5 years on this so I guess worst case scenario I'll explore South America, Africa, and Asia for the next 5 years (sorry Australians, you have massive spiders so I'm not setting foot anywhere near your little continent).
 
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LeVeL

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Since I said "continent", it would be more appropriate to use the entirety of North America in your comparison :p
 

bone

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LeVeL;n3553764 said:
I've read that the statue of limitations is 5 years on this so I guess worst case scenario I'll explore South America, Africa, and Asia for the next 5 years (sorry Australians, you have massive spiders so I'm not setting foot anywhere near your little continent).
you can also fly to france, who don't care about your fines in italy
rent a car there, and drive over to italy, the border between those is open...
 

LeVeL

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Can someone (@SirEdward) please verify that the Italian rozzers want me to pay 41€ for... something?

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","height":"928","width":"640","src":"https:\/\/i.imgur.com\/OA0mmfx_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium"}[/IMG2]
 

narf

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That's a speeding ticket for June 20th 14:48, they clocked you doing 99 in a 90 at km 23.5 on RA8 heading east, using one of these (serial number 48063):



They're deducting 5km/h so the fine is for 94 in a 90, 41€ - the minimum speeding fine.
 

LeVeL

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Thank you!

9kph over is 5mph - no way you'd get pulled over for that in the US! Don't get me wrong, I understand that their roads, their rules, but it's an interesting comparison. 3-4mph over the limit that I'm cited for would be laughed at by any court clerk.
 
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