Trains...

Xeon SX

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
1,515
Location
London
How much torque trains produce. I mean the ones that carry people or transport coal and such. Also what is their power source?
 

Viper007Bond

Chicken Nugget Connoisseur
STAFF MEMBER
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Messages
31,049
Location
Portland, Oregon
Car(s)
2008 Dodge Viper, 2006 MB CLS55 AMG
They are diesel electric. A diesel engine turns a generator which then powers electric motors on the axles.

I watched a cool thing on trains off the Discovery Channel a couple weeks / months back, but I can't seem to find it...
 

Blind_Io

"Be The Match" Registered
DONOR
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
21,752
Location
Utah, USA
Car(s)
06 Nissan XTerra Off Road, 00 VFR800, 07 ST1300
Just like cars it depends on the locomotive. Different locomotives are rated for different loads. You would use a different engine on the great plains than you would crossing the rockies. Anyway, they usually "stack" locomotives, running many at a time. Once they hit the mountains they sometimes put on a couple extra "helper" locomotives at the back of the train - in fact a town in Utah was named Helper for this very reason - it was a railroad town built around a yard the only purpose of which was to attach helper locomotives before a long steep grade.
 

CyberMonkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
2,068
Location
Belgium
Viper007Bond said:
They are diesel electric. A diesel engine turns a generator which then powers electric motors on the axles.

I watched a cool thing on trains off the Discovery Channel a couple weeks / months back, but I can't seem to find it...
Most trains in crowded European areas just use electricity, I guess... Only in the more remote area's diesel trains are used.

And it seems like the modern trains over here do have a small engine in every wagon too, so they can move along with 3-4 wagons without a big locomotive before it.
 

Viper007Bond

Chicken Nugget Connoisseur
STAFF MEMBER
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Messages
31,049
Location
Portland, Oregon
Car(s)
2008 Dodge Viper, 2006 MB CLS55 AMG
CyberMonkey: we have like billions of miles of track and an electric train wouldn't be strong enough to pull a train over a mile long. I've gotten up to a couple hundred cars before when counting the cars in trains. ;)
 

CyberMonkey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
2,068
Location
Belgium
I'm not sure if the performance is the issue, but I think the building and maintenance of the electric power lines above the tracks would be impossible for very long trajects.
 

ryosuke

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2005
Messages
1,900
Location
germsmany
Car(s)
a locomotive and a renault megane coupe
Viper007Bond said:
CyberMonkey: we have like billions of miles of track and an electric train wouldn't be strong enough to pull a train over a mile long. I've gotten up to a couple hundred cars before when counting the cars in trains. ;)
as cybermonkey points out, the cost of overhead wire is the reason why the US uses diesel locomotives. performanse is not an issue.

the most powerful US diesel locomotive ever, the EMD DDA40X, which was made by putting two regular engines onto one frame has a power output of 4.900kw.

a regular german electric freight engine, the class 152, however, puts out 6.400kw.
and an older, now out of service high speed passenger engine, the class 103 even had 7.440kw.

the power to haul those mile long trains through the US really comes from using at least three engines.


overhead wire is good in a small, congested space like europe (or metropolitan areas of the US, japan etc.) where trains run every few minutes. it reduces pollution and allows for more powerful locomotives, but its expensive to maintain and you need a power source in regular intervals. both of which would be very difficult to do throughout the whole of the US.
 

Viper007Bond

Chicken Nugget Connoisseur
STAFF MEMBER
Joined
Sep 21, 2003
Messages
31,049
Location
Portland, Oregon
Car(s)
2008 Dodge Viper, 2006 MB CLS55 AMG
Yeah, I knew the cost was the main reason, but I figured they couldn't put enough power though the line in order to handle such large trains going like 70 MPH. :?
 

hajj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2005
Messages
2,952
Location
Hamburg
CyberMonkey said:
Most trains in crowded European areas just use electricity, I guess... Only in the more remote area's diesel trains are used.

And it seems like the modern trains over here do have a small engine in every wagon too, so they can move along with 3-4 wagons without a big locomotive before it.
Make it mainland Europe. ;) In the UK there are still not so many electric lines as here in Western Europe.
 

Peter3hg

Forum Addict
Joined
May 3, 2006
Messages
5,949
Location
Manchester, UK
Car(s)
Audi A3 1.4 TFSI Honda Hornet CB600S
hajj said:
CyberMonkey said:
Most trains in crowded European areas just use electricity, I guess... Only in the more remote area's diesel trains are used.

And it seems like the modern trains over here do have a small engine in every wagon too, so they can move along with 3-4 wagons without a big locomotive before it.
Make it mainland Europe. ;) In the UK there are still not so many electric lines as here in Western Europe.
Blame Thatcher. Also the reason no trains ever run on time.
 

hajj

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2005
Messages
2,952
Location
Hamburg
peter3hg2 said:
hajj said:
CyberMonkey said:
Most trains in crowded European areas just use electricity, I guess... Only in the more remote area's diesel trains are used.

And it seems like the modern trains over here do have a small engine in every wagon too, so they can move along with 3-4 wagons without a big locomotive before it.
Make it mainland Europe. ;) In the UK there are still not so many electric lines as here in Western Europe.
Blame Thatcher. Also the reason no trains ever run on time.
Your trains don't run on time because you still use a victorian signaling system on some tracks. Labour could changed that in the last years. Deregulation has had some bad effects on public transport. TfL is still far away from being great, but having one body organising everything has it's advantages. :roll:
 

AiR

Forum Addict
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
11,985
Location
Suecia
Car(s)
Bulgogi Knedliky 1.6 GDI (Hyundai i30)
I can't believe this is our only thread on trains. Obviously trains are awesome. Post your trains and discuss. I begin with the new SJ 3000, an updated Regina designated X55. Also awesome is the red house at 0:20.


Interior (1:00 in)
 
Last edited:

idk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
1,836
Location
SW Germany
Car(s)
Hyundai i30N Performance
Yeah, I knew the cost was the main reason, but I figured they couldn't put enough power though the line in order to handle such large trains going like 70 MPH. :?
There is so much more power in electric lines that you couldn't produce with any realistic number of Diesel generators (except a really really large one like on a ship).

The problem is just, that there have to be transformer stations "everywhere" to keep up the voltage. So it doesn't make any sense on tracks that aren't very busy or where there aren't any good connections to the electric grid.

I know, that here in some "rather" [nothing compared to the US] rural areas with electric tracks, there are gas-turbine power generators that produce electricity.

And diesel trains are diesel electric, because an electric motor is just better if you need a lot of torque at low rpm.

What I personally find really interesting and what must be really complicated to develop, is that "modern" electric trains like a ICE 3 use recuperation. Means if the train brakes, the motors, that are mounted in the wheels, are switched from motor to generator mode and they generate electricity. That electricity has to be transformed to the voltage of the train power line AND synced with its modulation.

And this while braking, meaning that rpm of the wheels change constantly which means that the generators output changes also constantly.

I don't know too much about electricity, but it must be really complicated to make that work flawlessly.
 

Loz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
2,306
Location
Cornwall, UK
Gotta love the TGV...


Also, British Steam.


Steam engines here are still a big spectator thing.
 
Last edited:

chaos386

.sa = bad driver!
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
7,960
Location
Back in Saudia
Car(s)
SEAT Leon FR
Interior (1:00 in)
When they showed the handicapped logo, I was expecting them to cut to a shot of a person in a wheelchair moving around and looking at the camera in the same way the dog was. :lol:
 

narf

Sgt. Maj. Buzzkill
DONOR
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Messages
18,153
Location
Kiel/Wherever, Germany
Car(s)
'19 BMW M240i
I can't believe this is our only thread on trains. Obviously trains are awesome. Post your trains and discuss.
How 'bout a thread about squashed trains? I'll start.







As for the shallow-grave-discussion about torque and power, our modern high-speed trains have transformers and motors distributed over the train. Each half train hence is unsplittable, and as a result you have decent power and traction. About 4MW per half train, so in its longest regular operation they put down about 16MW - about 22000hp.
For transporting stuff we use electric as well, such as this 6.4MW Siemens locomotive:



If you need even more power, just take two :dunno: comes with regenerative braking as well :nod:
 

SpitfireMK461

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
2,682
Location
Northern Virginia
Car(s)
2013 Mini Cooper S
I approve this thread.

Nothing gets me going like a big old steam locomotive.


But I also love new Maglevs.
 
Last edited:

AiR

Forum Addict
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Messages
11,985
Location
Suecia
Car(s)
Bulgogi Knedliky 1.6 GDI (Hyundai i30)
Train dragrace!


The train we're riding in is terrifically ugly X31K.


The door folds so you can link two ugly trains together. Not sure where the drivers control panel or seat goes.
 
Last edited:
Top