U.S. deserters can stay in Canada: Commons

Lee Zaslofsky said:
"This is a great victory for the courageous men and women who have come to Canada because they refuse to take part in the illegal, immoral Iraq war," said campaign co-ordinator Lee Zaslofsky, a Vietnam deserter who came to Canada in 1970.

hahaha, now that made me laugh! Why the hell with you sign up for the army if you had no intentions of going to an eventual war?? :blink:
 
^ I think you have the illegal war syndrome. When you sign-up you, of course assume that your government would never go to war illegally, then poof you are in one (or rather you think you are) what do you do? Go North young man, go North.
 
I don't think so, I am not debating the legality of the war, I am just saying that "real" soldiers that sign up to serve their country will do so when they are asked by said country without questioning the legality of the conflict.

In my opinion they chickened out, as easy as that.
 
^ I agree, especially since my brother is in Iraq right now.

What is the punishment for desertion from the Canadian military? I assume that it is a crime and if that deserter from the Canadian military settled in the United States I would expect the government to send that person back to Canada for punishment.

Wait, Canadaland has an army? :p
 
^ I agree, especially since my brother is in Iraq right now.



Wait, Canadaland has an army? :p

Last time I was in Canada, the West Edmonton Mall had more submarines than the Canadian Navy.

:funfact:
 
Last time I was in Canada, the West Edmonton Mall had more submarines than the Canadian Navy.

:funfact:

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I don't think so, I am not debating the legality of the war, I am just saying that "real" soldiers that sign up to serve their country will do so when they are asked by said country without questioning the legality of the conflict.

In my opinion they chickened out, as easy as that.

I'm going to have to disagree with that. Imagine if more German soldiers refused the orders of the Third Reich? Or perhaps Iraqi or Iranian soldiers. And yes, American soldiers as well. It's because soldiers are willing to obey orders that they think are "illegal" or "wrong" which allows for governments to get away with these unnecessary wars.

So I want to see more American soldiers say "No"...and I want to see the Revolutionary Guard say "No" and the same for Russian soldiers being sent to Chechnya, Israeli soldiers being sent into the West Bank and Gaza and so on and so forth. Perhaps then we can be closer to that crazy idea of "world peace"
 
This article gives two sides of the story. May not change your opinion but it's interesting reading.

Highlights :

A deserter said:
In 2002, I joined the Indiana National Guard. When I joined, I was told I would only be in combat if there were troops occupying the United States.

I signed up to defend people and do humanitarian work filling sandbags if there was a hurricane. I had no conception I would be deployed to fight on foreign shores.

But in 2005, I was deployed with my unit to Camp Anaconda near Balad, Iraq. My job in Iraq was in military intelligence.

Through this job I had access to a lot of information about what was happening on the ground in Iraq. I realised innocent people were being killed unjustly and I tried to quit the military while in Iraq. My commander told me I was stressed out and needed R&R, because I was doing a job I was not trained to do.

National Post journalist said:
Should Corey Glass have enlisted in the US National Guard back in 2002? Probably not. From what I saw and heard of his 21 May press conference in Toronto, my first impression was that this pale, lanky 25-year-old should be playing synth in a Gothic emo band - not kicking down doors in Iraq.

But for whatever reason, Glass did sign up for military service. There's no draft in the United States - as there was in the Vietnam era: No one forced him to put on a uniform. Why should Canadians help this deserter go back on his freely given word?

America's fair-weather soldiers shouldn't be permitted to make a mockery of a Canadian refugee system that was originally designed to protect migrants fleeing assassination and torture.
 
In 2002, there were rumors of a coming war in Iraq, but it hadn't exploded into finality, nor would National Guardsmen be expected to go. National Guard is the reserve military of the United States, primarily concerned with keeping order at events within America's borders, guarding places such as train stations and airports in times of heightened security, and helping in humanitarian missions such as the deserter expected to do. They played a huge part in Katrina, for example. It's not out of line for the guy mentioned here to expect that instead of going to Iraq, like my friend who wants to sign up claims as well. It's unfortunate that in this war more troops are needed despite their status as second-line defense, and that the old slogan "one weekend a month, two weeks a year" that I still remember years ago doesn't apply anymore.

USAR.OneWeekendMyAss.jpg


Also, the National Post journalist is a huge dick. I hope he gets carjacked.
 
I agree with the volunteer army bit, but then again, it's the National Guard...

On the other hand, they participated in WWII (right?), so it's not that uncommon.
 
I agree with the volunteer army bit, but then again, it's the National Guard...

On the other hand, they participated in WWII (right?), so it's not that uncommon.

They did indeed take part in World War II.

Couple stats :

The National Guard made up 19 divisions during WW2 (and 40% of the US forces in France during WW1).

About 43% of frontline forces in Iraq are National Guard, and about 55% in Afghanistan. This was in 2005. source
 
U.S. deserter wins appeal in fight for refugee status

TU THANH HA
July 5, 2008



The Immigration and Refugee Board was wrong when it decided that an American deserter couldn't claim refugee status in Canada because the military transgressions he was evading weren't severe enough to be war crimes or crimes against humanity, the Federal Court ruled yesterday.


The judgment lowers one of the bars that the recent wave of American deserters need to clear when they seek asylum in Canada.


It said that dodging orders that are "contrary to the basic rules or norms of human conduct" is enough grounds to apply for refugee protection.


"Military action which systematically degrades, abuses or humiliates either combatants or non-combatants is capable of supporting a refugee claim where that is the proven reason for refusing to serve," wrote Mr. Justice Robert Barnes, who is also a court-martial appellate judge.



However, the ruling didn't address another legal hurdle faced by American deserters: proving that they'll face undue hardship if sent back to the United States.


Instead, Judge Barnes ordered the IRB to re-examine the application of Joshua Key, a former private who deserted in 2003 while on a two-week leave from his unit in Iraq.


"Mr. Key did not have the opportunity to present a meaningful case on that issue [of military punishment]," Judge Barnes wrote.


The ruling is one of the first in favour of U.S. soldiers who fled to Canada, following the failure last year of deserters Jeremy Hinzman and Brandon Hughey to persuade Canadian courts that they would be unfairly treated if they are court-martialed in the United States.


"While the Hinzman decision has certainly set the bar very high for deserters from the United States military," Judge Barnes wrote, it would still be possible for a deserter to prove he had tried all avenues to evade overseas duty or unfair punishment in the United States.


Having deserted while he was on furlough, "Private Key would have been deployed back to Iraq within two weeks of his arrival in the United States, the opportunity to pursue a release or re-assignment may not have been realistic," Judge Barnes wrote.


Mr. Key had told the IRB that while in Iraq with a unit of combat engineers, he took part in at least 70 raids on civilian homes. The IRB found that the actions Mr. Key witnessed had "a disturbing level of brutality" but weren't war crimes involving deportation, slave labour or civilian hostage-taking, or crimes against humanity, with systematic use of torture and murder against civilians.


"In my view, the Board erred in ... concluding that refugee protection for military deserters and evaders is only available where the conduct objected to amounts to a war crime, a crime against peace or a crime against humanity," Judge Barnes wrote in yesterday's ruling.


Mr. Key, who is living in Saskatchewan with his wife and their four children, was happy with the decision. "He thought it was a good Fourth of July present to him," said his lawyer, Jeffry House.


Mr. House said yesterday's ruling would apply to deserters who had already seen service in Iraq, not those who deserted before they were shipped overseas.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080705.CLAIM05/TPStory/National

Sigh........I am still holding out hope for you Canada but shit like this does make it quite difficult to continue.
 
I'm not too sure about this, because Iraq is a complicated War - Yes they signed up to go to war, but there must be an agreement with the government that they would not be sent to a war that has say...oh I don't know...no planning? Inexperience overpaid people in Control who properly don't know what's going on? Its a big mess but its not the soldiers fault, its piss poor policy and huge amounts of ignorance that have caused it.

I feel sorry for soldiers sometimes, we put them through hell, if we had stood up and said No a bit louder it might not have been the case.
 
I'm not too sure about this, because Iraq is a complicated War - Yes they signed up to go to war, but there must be an agreement with the government that they would not be sent to a war that has say...oh I don't know...no planning?

That is not their decision to make.
 
About 43% of frontline forces in Iraq are National Guard, and about 55% in Afghanistan. This was in 2005. source

I have a question.

Bearing the above in mind, why have the US sent the National Guard out to Iraq when they have plenty full-time (and presumably better trained) soldiers they could have sent?

I'd agree that deserting from a full-time Army job is not on, but National Guarders surely didn't expect to be sent halfway across the world. As the guy said in the article, they signed on and expected to be helping after national disasters.
 
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