US of A Presidential Elections 2012

LeVeL said:
But bombing Gaddafi's palace and killing his family??
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Why is his family still in a country that has a civil war actively taking place? More to the point, why is his family in the most visible target of said civil war?

If he weren't trying to use them as human shields to protect something, as jmsprovan has pointed out, what possible reason would they have to be there and not somewhere safe?
 
LeVeL said:
So if a bank robber is using a hostage as a human shield, SWAT should just shoot the hostage?
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I'm sorry, who's robbing banks here? Bank robbers don't generally have massive military arsenals that they're actively using to kill innocent civilians.
 
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Nato doesn't know who is in the building at any one time, its what he relies on.

As I said earlier, there has been no independent verification of his family perishing in a Nato airstrike, we have to rely on the truth coming from Libyan state tv (unlikely).
 
All the republican candidates seem like carny rejects. And the carny accepts all levels of weirdos right?

I've been a leftie pretty much since I could form cohesive politics-related sentences. However I've always been disappointed with Obama. I knew and felt well into 2004, that he was just a neophyte and the country needed someone with experience, ala Hillary Clinton. Bill Clinton got us into a surplus and Bush trashed all that and the economy and left Obama with the clean up duties.

I'm surprised everyone is blaming Obama when no-one has said anything about Bush. In that respect the conservative extremists piss me off. Fuckin tea party bullshit. Bunch of illiterate uneducated extremists that have essentially crossed the line into terrorism.

I'm still disappointed with Obama, he seems totally apathetic about the economic situation and his speeches have become entirely hot air, devoid of any sense of concern for our welfare. Wish we could have Hillary run.
 
WillDAQ said:
What a selective view of the world, very American.
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How am I being selective? I already posted proof of rebels being put into power and being far worse than the government they replaced.

Nation building/shaping has rarely worked, most of the time it has back fired badly. This is why I am so anti-war, which I never knew was such a minority opinion.
 
jasonof2000 said:
I really wish Obama got a set of balls for his birthday, the way he constantly caves is really pissing me off. However at this point I see no other choice than him. All the Repub candidates bother me to some extent.
Bachman is a homophobe, is WAAYYYY too social conservative for my taste and I think she is flat out crazy. I also despise the Tea Baggars so I won't vote for any of their favorites, I have no desire to associate with racist, fat baby boomers.
Pawlenty is boring and really stands no chance.
Herman Cain stands no chance and I don't think he likes to read (the whole small bill thing, idiotic), plus Godfathers Pizza is terrible.
John Huntsman has been doing horrible in the debates so far.
Santorum... About the only thing I like about him is that he pissed off the gay community enough that they came up with an awesome definition for his name. He stands no chance, oh and in Iowa he is giving out home made jelly at his tent, combine that with above definition, awesome.
Romney, I MAYBE can see voting for him but I really don't like what he did at Bain Capital, I feel that is the type of business experience our executive branch can do without.
Rick Perry, no, no, NO! I will not vote for someone who said Texas should leave the union. I also will not vote for that type of holier-than-thou-I'm-better-than-you-Christian. Also last time we had a Texas governor we wound up in two unpaid for wars and the rich pay virtually no taxes.
Sadly my dream candidate will never run (Colin Powell), perhaps I'll write his name in anyway.

Anyone would of been better than Bush. Actually what interests me the most is where were these "fiscal conservatives" when Bush was digging the US into a deeper and deeper whole and where was their outrage when Chaney said "deficits don't matter"?
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That's how I feel on both counts. I'm disillusioned in Obama's seeming spineless all the time. It's frustrating to see him and the rest of the democrats fold. I was going to vote for John Edwards...kinda glad I didn't after he turned out to be a scumbag piece of shit, but yeah. I would have echoed LP and voted for Hilary had I had the chance.

The republicans are unappealing in general. I can't stand the overly religious/morality police undertones behind nearly every candidates, and they just seem to be idk...a special sort of crazy in terms of some of the things the candidates have done. I also love how Fox was like "no you cannot attend the debate....your survey results don't count" to Fred Karger, the one republican who seems to be idk...sane in terms of political policies?

Since when is it a good thing if one is totally extreme left or extreme right? Wouldn't someone who has a balance of the best ideas from both sides be a better option?
 
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You know the elephant in the room? The deficit and the downgrade, anyone going to tackle that do you Americans think? Does this not need to be done rapidly?
 
Cobol74 said:
You know the elephant in the room? The deficit and the downgrade, anyone going to tackle that do you Americans think? Does this not need to be done rapidly?
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Raising taxes and cutting government programs (this includes occupying Iraq and Afghanistan) would be seen as unpopular so no politician will do it. We'll hit another Great Depression which will probably last four or so years.
 
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As an atheist sane person, I have a real problem with that.
 
I haven't been following politics much lately. I read this

Former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty dropped out of the race for the GOP presidential nomination on Sunday, hours after finishing a disappointing third in the Iowa straw poll.
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Um, seriously? Is 3rd a bad finish if Michelle Bachman and Ron Paul came 1st and 2nd? How is this the end of the road for him? It's not like Bachman or Paul are going to get the Republican nomination, are they?
 
Probably to get away from the crazy kids.
 
Firecat said:
It's not like Bachman or Paul are going to get the Republican nomination, are they?
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Honestly, at this point, I don't think anyone knows what the GOP is going to do... especially not the GOP themselves. Palin has yet to finally blow her candidacy load all over us, and I think it's going to be a race to the bottom between Perry and Palin.

argatoga said:
This is why I am so anti-war, which I never knew was such a minority opinion.
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I am definitely anti-war, but I am even more anti-despots murdering civilians fighting for their freedom. We aren't waging a war in Libya, we're trying to prevent a slaughtering.
 
Dogbert said:
I am definitely anti-war, but I am even more anti-despots murdering civilians fighting for their freedom. We aren't waging a war in Libya, we're trying to prevent a slaughtering.
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Is there proof that the rebels won't be worse? I don't see the world as there being "good" people and "evil" people. The rebels can be just as bad once they take power.
 
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argatoga said:
Is there proof that the rebels won't be worse?
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When the person in charge is murdering his own people for peacefully protesting, I don't find that question relevant. If the people want to rise up against that leader, go for it, and if we can help, we should. This isn't a regime change like the US has worked with before. This isn't a question of "we don't like that govt so let us help get a new one in" like it was in, for instance, Iran. This is blatant murderous suppression of the Libyan peoples' right to choose their own government.
 
SpitfireMK461 said:
When the person in charge is murdering his own people for peacefully protesting, I don't find that question relevant.
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Who was the good side in the Rwanda civil war? Neither had issue slaughtering the other.

SpitfireMK461 said:
If the people want to rise up against that leader, go for it, and if we can help, we should.
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It isn't our job to do this. Much damage can be done trying to do good. To Eisenhower removing Mossadegh was saving the Iranians from the evil communists. The Shah terrorized the people of Iran until he was overthrown. Good intentions, horrible consequences.

SpitfireMK461 said:
This isn't a regime change like the US has worked with before. This isn't a question of "we don't like that govt so let us help get a new one in" like it was in, for instance, Iran. This is blatant murderous suppression of the Libyan peoples' right to choose their own government.
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So the rebel government will not be worse than the current one? You have a guarantee of this? Last I heard none of the members of the NTC were democracy elected. But they call themselves a republic and a democracy so let's support them!
 
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Spitfire is reading this thread so I'll double post this so it isn't missed:

 
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