war on terror on israel

lol...very much so :)

Not sure if this was discussed yet, but I read some reports that the Israeli soldiers that were "kidnapped" may not have been in Israel, but rather in Southern Lebanon.
 
Its would be disgusting to see the likes of Saudi Arabia supporting USA if there is an offensive against Iran. and this goes for PAkistan too.
 
Don't forget, The Saudis do NOT like Iran. They don't want to see Iran spread it's influence any more than Israel does. They are already pretty much opposed to Iran, so be disgusted I guess.
 
zenkidori said:
Don't forget, The Saudis do NOT like Iran. They don't want to see Iran spread it's influence any more than Israel does. They are already pretty much opposed to Iran, so be disgusted I guess.
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Yup, the stage has been set for a conflict, even if is it one of words, between the Sunni nations and the Shiite ones. All of the countries that spoke out against Hesbollah have alot to gain by getting Iran out of the picture. Although I take no sides on the sectarian divide (both are retarded), I'm glad some of the stronger arab nations are speaking out against the obvious increasing influence of Iran in the region. The last thing the region needs is more funding of extremist Islamist groups, and a new player on the block run by yet another oppresive, backwards regime.
 
I think I can sum up the conflict pretty succinctly:

Both religions say to kill people outside their religion.

That's the fundamental issue. Nothing real can accomplished until this is addressed. 8)
 
Do not forget that Arab countries are very divided!
It is the reason why they were totally unable to destroy Israel in 60 years.
(do not tell me that is because US support. In 1948, 1956, 1967 US did not
support Israel like they do now)

Iran, which is not an Arab country, is disliked by Arab countries, and no
Arab countries will accept Iran getting some power and sneaking into
this problem.
Saudi Arabia will not threaten US, they need their support.

Israel has never feared a war against Arab countries. Now with the strong US support they fear it even less. Syria has prooved to have a very bad army in the past (1982 for example).


This geographic area is a big mess, and it is getting worse.

I am ashamed of all this Muslim and Arab countries telling lesson to Israel.
None of this countries in a democraty. All of them are corrupted leaders.

Israel is a democraty, not a perfect one I know, but at least they have muslim deputies in their parlement, freely elected.

I am getting anti muslim day by day. I do not like that, but I do not see anything make me think Islam is a peacefull religion and muslims people I can trust.
I still think we have to wipe out all the religions out of the planet, world will be much better.
 
Ultra_Kool_Dude said:
I think I can sum up the conflict pretty succinctly:

Both religions say to kill people outside their religion.

That's the fundamental issue. Nothing real can accomplished until this is addressed. 8)
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Amen.
 
zenkidori said:
Don't forget, The Saudis do NOT like Iran. They don't want to see Iran spread it's influence any more than Israel does. They are already pretty much opposed to Iran, so be disgusted I guess.
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The Muslims in general do NOT like Israel or USA. remember its not the people who support these retarded Govts (US) but the puppet leaders. The saudis are the worst of the muslims they practice the Shariah Law, meaning they cut the hands, legs etc so even if the culprit wants to change he has no choice cuz he aint got hands. But I guess that doesnt mean anything to the US because they just hate Iran or im thinking Shia as a whole, because They oppose all the Shia countries. When will US do something about Robert Mugabe since its so worried about the world. :?

To Budzi I dont see anything nice about Israelis (see im not saying Jews unlike u) but I dont think they should be wiped out. Nothing wrong with Islam, whats wrong is the culture that has developed over there. I think in 20 years all will be different because I know the youth of today has different views, no one needs to be violent to change muslims its just a matter of time.
 
budzi said:
I am getting anti muslim day by day. I do not like that, but I do not see anything make me think Islam is a peacefull religion and muslims people I can trust.
I still think we have to wipe out all the religions out of the planet, world will be much better.
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If we had a holocaust i could call you a Nazi. :p
 
There are Muslim countries in asia that don't have insane leaders or support terrorist groups.

It's not the religion so much as the region.
 
Oh man, this whole situation is getting very hairy right now. I hate the whole premise of religion in times like this. This whole thing is based on religious infighting.

I support Israel, not just as a jew (culturally only, I'm an atheist), but as a sympathetic observer. I have friends and relatives in Israel who don't wholeheartedly support military action in this case, but realize the logic of those who do. Israel has been jerked around by all of it's neighbors since its inception (with the recent exceptions of Egypt and Jordan). Sure, there is a logical point made by palestinians that the area is their homeland. Israel has been willing to give over control of nearly half of their total area to Palestinian provincial governments. However, when the palestinians elected Hamas, the Israelis made it absolutely clear that state-sponsored terrorism was not permitted. Hamas ignored this warning and continued to allow attacks on Israeli soil. When one sovereign area attacks another, that is called an act of war. The Israelis have limited combat as much as they could in Gaza and the West Bank, but when a terrorist blows himself up in a crowded marketplace, there are reasonable grounds for a reprisal.

Hizbollah has done the same thing. Hariri and his government claim that they cannot control Nasrallah and his merry band of terrorists, but this is their responsibility. Lebanon has made huge strides in the last year. They've ejected the Syrians and set up their own government. They must now do the just thing and prove to the world that they are a nation worthy of international respect. If they cannot rein in the terrorists within their borders, they cannot be taken seriously as a nation. Israel should stop their attack, but Lebanon must stop those who attack their powerful neighbor to the south. Only when there is a cease-fire can there be any talk of peace.
 
Jacobfox said:
Israel has been jerked around by all of it's neighbors since its inception (with the recent exceptions of Egypt and Jordan). Sure, there is a logical point made by palestinians that the area is their homeland. Israel has been willing to give over control of nearly half of their total area to Palestinian provincial governments.
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Israel will never give up the land that belongs to the palestinians according to the UN resolution 181, for very good reasons. Simply remember that Israel took many fractions of land that did not belong to them.
 
Jacobfox said:
Hizbollah has done the same thing. Hariri and his government claim that they cannot control Nasrallah and his merry band of terrorists, but this is their responsibility. Lebanon has made huge strides in the last year. They've ejected the Syrians and set up their own government. They must now do the just thing and prove to the world that they are a nation worthy of international respect. If they cannot rein in the terrorists within their borders, they cannot be taken seriously as a nation. Israel should stop their attack, but Lebanon must stop those who attack their powerful neighbor to the south. Only when there is a cease-fire can there be any talk of peace.
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Hariri is dead, I think you mean the Saniora government. Also, Lebanon has not gotten rid of Syria, not in the least bit. The troops aren't there, but the influence is. Israel made their biggest blunder regarding their conflict with Lebanon when they didn't capitalise on the huge anti-Syria/anti-Hesbollah sentiment in Lebanon. Israel really could have come out of this conflict heroes, now they will only come out losers. Israel doesn't have the ability to drive out Hesbollah without causing massive damage to Lebanon. Hesbollah is part of Lebanon, and it needs to be solved from with in. The government needed to return to the south, take control of the borders, schools, hospitals, and policing, because all these services offered by Hesbollah are a front for their military wing (same with Hamas and other Islamists that offer 'social services').

I am the last person that wants to see Hesbollah successfull in the eyes of the Arab world, but that's going to be the case. You have to admit, Israel seriously dropped the ball with this one. You know that no matter what happens, as soon as Israel withdraws and Hesbollah is still alive, the Arab world will declare them victorious. This victory is going to be much, much more widespread than 2000. I can't see where Israel is taking the region with this.

And I think the Arab world long forgot about 181 because 181 is never going to happen again. We let 181 go when we got destroyed in the Six-Day War. That's when Israel faught for their right to exist, and won it. The issue now is the pre '67 borders and how the new security wall screws everything up. Israel is unilaterally drawing its borders and that's no good. I don't mind the wall as an idea, but build it on the '67 borders.
 
Nope, the old hariri is dead. I'm talking about his son. And you definitely have a valid point, ///m, which was basically what I was trying to get at. The only way that Israel won't come out losing here is by forcing a negotiation in some way. Hey, I have a great idea, maybe the Israelis could withdraw, dig a tunnel under the border, kidnap two Hezbollah ops and hold them hostage. :lol:

Whatever happens, it looks bad from all angles.
 
You see, because of the Arab inferiority complex, two Hezbollah soldiers are worth nothing compared to two Israeli soldiers. We have been battered and bruised so many times that any small "victory" is worth alot. This also goes back to some false sense of pride that needs to be restored. Let's restore our pride at home first by getting rid of the idiots that have devalued us so much that we only care about our own lives when it's an American or Israeli doing the killing. When was the last time you saw a peace protest in the middle east that protests against the savage killing between Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq?

So at the end of the day, if Israel does kidnap two Hesbollah soldiers, they're "martyrs" for the cause. They aren't big enough bargaining chips to do anything meaningful.
 
You're right, there isn't enough outrage regarding sectarian violence. In the same way it's like how Americans (for example) care more about thei own dead as opposed to the deaths of people from other counries (like Iraq).

Again, that's just an example. It goes for pretty much every country out there. And i'm sure most Americans (again just an example) care more about the death of other americans by foreigners as opposed to when they kill themselves.
 
I'm sorry but a human life is worth much, much more in America than in the middle east. I'm not just talking about making a fuss about it and giving it news time, I'm talking about a problem that extends all the way down to the civilians controlled by these oppressive regimes. This bothers me very much as an Egyptian because we had an era were the Egyptian citizen was worth something. I don't know what caused this, whether it's fundamentalism or political apathy at home.
 
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