Well this is just disgusting.

The question of legality is not based on what you read in the paper or what CNN is telling you. You have to base it on the orders in front of you, and those orders usually have NOTHING to do with politics. My last deployment order said something like "YOU WILL REPORT TO ________ IN SUPPORT OF ________ FOR AN UNKNOWN DURATION BASED ON MISSION COMPLETION."

Based on orders like that, exactly what was illegal?


Um, if you are ordered to attack another country....shouldn't you ask why? And shouldn't you only follow those orders if they are justified?

Or maybe if America chose to fight wars of conquest and territorial gain, they could just send troops to all parts of the world to take over countries...and the soldiers will just follow?

Now when the orders to attack Afghanistan came down, I can understand how soldiers would follow those orders. There was some form of casus belli. But the orders to invade Iraq, that bewilders me.
 
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I wasn't referring to any specific orders during war, but rather the order to go there in the first place

and again, there is nothing illegal or unethical about it. The people who have to think about that broad question are the ones in charge of the war, that's thier job.

People can try. But at the end of the day, Iraq didn't attack the United States and didn't plan on attacking the United States.
I don't think anyone is debating otherwise, but it would be very foolish to think that the best thing to do now is to pull up stakes and leave the country in such a mess and let minority fundamentalists battle it out for control of the country.

Um, if you are ordered to attack another country....shouldn't you ask why?
Do you not understand that soldiers aren't orderd to "attack Iraq"? Your orders are very specific and goal oriented, the big picture belongs to the ones running the show, and at the start of the war and indeed pretty well into it nobody down low had an idea what everyone upstairs knew, not even you way up there on your high horse.
 
The drums were beating, and it was quite obvious where the situation was headed. Pretty much the entire world was against the war, as I'm sure you were. We weren't privy to top secret information, but we knew Iraq was not a threat (or as big a threat as they were made out to be).

Sure, the orders aren't probably "attack Iraq"...but any order to enter Iraq should have been disobeyed. Or to report to Kuwait or whatever. Again, it was well known what was happening. It wasn't really a shock that the orders to report to the mideast were to apply pressure on Iraq and eventually invade.
 
That's the thing tho, it wasn't well known. For all anyone knew back then the higher ups could have had some secret intelligence like they claimed and there could have been a very good reason for it, but hindsight is always 20/20.
 
some secret intelligence

The current administration sure does a good job of keeping intelligence 'secret'.

Regarding one of the above posts, I believe the respondent meant the legality of the war in Iraq is not worthy of debate - by all standards of international law, the invasion of Iraq was illegal, and the perpetrators can be subject to a war crimes tribunal. Doubters can read up on the UN resolutions 1441, 678 and 687, as well as The Geneva Conventions.
 
These people are fucking pathetic, leave them alone... they'll get their comeuppance somewhere from someone, if they deserve it.
 
lol at you guys. You really have no idea what being in a combat zone is like. So the guys want to have a little fun, who cares? They have been facing bullets and explosions for days upon days and you feel that you can criticize them? Until you have experienced that you can't really say much. I can say something because I have spoken with soldiers and I am only telling the truth.

Just stop bring up this little shit. They are soldiers, not saints. And compared to soldiers in any past conflict they are quite restrained.
 
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I have more knowledge of these matters than you do and I have a greater perspective due to my studies of history. That would mean that my assertions mean more than yours.

I have soldiers in the family. These men in the videos are SOLDIERS. THEY HAVE TO DODGE BULLETS AND EXPLOSIONS AND SOMETIMES THEY HAVE TO KILL. You are complaining because they are having a little fun? Please, get some perspective and stop worrying about the small shit.
 
I have more knowledge of these matters than you do and I have a greater perspective due to my studies of history. That would mean that my assertions mean more than yours.

ummmmmmmmmmm, your studies of history??

good luck with that stance...
 
I have more knowledge of these matters than you do and I have a greater perspective due to my studies of history. That would mean that my assertions mean more than yours.

Alright. I give up.

:rolleyes:
 
I can't believe how dumb and ignorant some people are... you give the same dumb answers for everything. "They're soldiers! They dodge bullets! They're soldiers!"

If you had said something like soldiers are prone to playing such mean tricks because they are antagonized by the people of the country they are fighting, that would have at least made some sense. But no, they're soldiers. That's all that matters... they're soldiers.

GWB might get away by just saying stupid senseless crap that the average American is willing to accept without any judgement, but I guess there's just too many history students among us here. :rolleyes:

I hope someone closes this thread though. Everyone, including me, just keeps repeating the same thing in every post.
 
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I can't believe how dumb and ignorant some people are... you give the same dumb answers for everything. "They're soldiers! They dodge bullets! They're soldiers!"

If you had said something like soldiers are prone to playing such mean tricks because they are antagonized by the people of the country they are fighting, that would have at least made some sense. But no, they're soldiers. That's all that matters... they're soldiers.

This statement only proves that you have no really knowledge of what a soldier really is or any concept of the situation that they are in. I'm not talking about Bush or any politics, I am talking about what it is to be a soldier. Hours upon hour in dangerous situations, the constant threat of dying or seeing your friends die. And sometimes hours and hours of nothing with boredom beyond believe. That is the soldiers life. So they play a few tricks on the civilians, in the big picture does that really matter? It's not disgusting in any way because it is really nothing at all.

I repeat myself because the truth has not changed. I don't care why the soldiers are there or who sent them, that really has nothing to do with the point I am trying to make.

You call me dumb and ignorant (A fallacy by the way) but I will not call you any names because I can see that you formed your opinion with a lack of knowledge. I suggest that you do research on what it is to be a soldier. Look at the conduct of soldiers in past wars and conflicts. Compare and contrast and then come back and give an informed opinion.
 
I never said this was disgusting and I didn't call for any kind of punishment or anything... I just said it's stupid and idiotic. You can't take out your own grief and pain on other people... it doesn't matter how big your problems are and how small the tricks are that you're playing on people to divert your attention away from your own desperate situation... it's just morally wrong.

With that said... I care as little about the plight of the Iraqi people as I do about the plight of the American soldier (or most other soldiers, I'm not being anti-American)... I really could not care less and I don't think this is disgusting by any means (although the original video was slightly disgusting)... to me it just shows a bunch of immature people who are clearly having fun at the expense of someone else.
 
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The problem is that Jetsetter and many others only care about the soldiers. So they excuse them for playing these games on civilians, totally ignoring the fact that the civilians have it extremely tough as well.

Like the media that keeps a running tally of US dead, but ignore the civilian death toll. Like the politicians that constantly talk about the soldiers but don't utter a word about the civilians.

I know the reason why. Because an American life is worth more than any other.
 
The problem is that Jetsetter and many others only care about the soldiers. So they excuse them for playing these games on civilians, totally ignoring the fact that the civilians have it extremely tough as well.

Like the media that keeps a running tally of US dead, but ignore the civilian death toll. Like the politicians that constantly talk about the soldiers but don't utter a word about the civilians.

I know the reason why. Because an American life is worth more than any other.
Another reason: it might make it seem what we're doing is bad. There will be none of that in the media!:rolleyes:

It's all the same crap about making things better for the Iraqi people. Forget the fact that thousands of them are getting killed and maimed in the process.
 
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