WikiLeaks strikes again -- U.S. diplomacy stripped naked

So the Pentagon Papers should never have been leaked?

I never made such a claim. If there is something wrong being done in government, I'd applaud whoever made it known to the public.

These recent leaks have done no such thing. The government classifies certain things as confidential because, on a world stage, somethings need to be kept to themselves. Things such as the Secretary of State making private commentary of a dignitary or the DoD's war strategy are sometimes necessary to remain secret so as not to hurt diplomacy in the former, and keep troops and war efforts safe in the latter. Technologies are made secret so that rival (or enemy) countries do not obtain them.

Our government is of the people, by the people, and for the people. It stands to reason that we know as much about government workings as possible. Sometimes, though, it is detrimental to our efforts for certain things to be free to the public.

It should be noted that while a criminal investigation is underway by the Justice Department, US law protects the redistribution of confidential files as long as the distributer did not do anything illegal to obtain the documents. If Julian Assange did nothing illegal to obtain the files, then he did nothing illegal by releasing the files. It's that simple.

In the end, the US government isn't restricting press coverage of this, so it is ignorant to criticize its hosting of World Press Freedom Day.
 
Quick poll for our US friends. If you believe that WikiLeaks sites that promote the theft of classified information from governments should be shut down, raise your right hand.

If you believe the First Amendment should be repealed, you can lower it.
relevant how? I don't mind the publishing by the press, I respect their freedom to do so, even more so their fairly reasonable discretion regarding whats safe to be made public. Its the site that's promoting/perpetuating/enabling the idea that you should steal secret and classified sh*t from your government en masse that doesn't tickle my fancy. In the same way that I support the illegality of protests that promote and incite violence. and I don't necessarily think the government should be the ones to shut wikileaks down unless it was determined that they helped in the actual theft of the documents.

If you still have your arm in the air, well, enjoy your day.

I think I'll keep it raised thank you
 
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If there is something wrong being done in government, I'd applaud whoever made it known to the public.

These recent leaks have done no such thing.

In order to determine whether something was right or wrong you need to first know about it.

Also, shooting journalists from a gunship is wrong. We only know about it in full detail thanks to leaks.
 
people are going to spin this WikiLeaks thing however it helps their argument. there are a reason sectrets are kept. no matter your view im sure we can all understand this.
 
I never made such a claim. If there is something wrong being done in government, I'd applaud whoever made it known to the public.

These recent leaks have done no such thing. The government classifies certain things as confidential because, on a world stage, somethings need to be kept to themselves. Things such as the Secretary of State making private commentary of a dignitary or the DoD's war strategy are sometimes necessary to remain secret so as not to hurt diplomacy in the former, and keep troops and war efforts safe in the latter. Technologies are made secret so that rival (or enemy) countries do not obtain them.

Our government is of the people, by the people, and for the people. It stands to reason that we know as much about government workings as possible. Sometimes, though, it is detrimental to our efforts for certain things to be free to the public.

It should be noted that while a criminal investigation is underway by the Justice Department, US law protects the redistribution of confidential files as long as the distributer did not do anything illegal to obtain the documents. If Julian Assange did nothing illegal to obtain the files, then he did nothing illegal by releasing the files. It's that simple.

In the end, the US government isn't restricting press coverage of this, so it is ignorant to criticize its hosting of World Press Freedom Day.

There is no authority of what is a government wrong and what is not.

U.S. Diplomacy should be determined by whom the people elect. No secrecy and no entangling diplomatic deals. Operation AJAX was deemed secret at the time confidential and important to world security. I want the government to fear that information will leak out.

Another example would be the Cuban missile crisis, imagine how much easier it would have been if it was transparent.
USSR: We feel threatened by the U.S. nuclear missiles close to out border in Turkey.
USSA: O.K. we'll remove them.
It took the missile crisis to accomplish the above.
 
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:lmao: Great timing!

What is so surprising? The United States has not gone after the various news organizations that have analyzed and published the leaks.
Lieberman, just this afternoon, called for an investigation of the NYT by the Justice Dept. Holder is pondering if we can shut down Wikileaks or charge Assange with treason (the man's not even a US citizen, for fucks sake!).

No nothing has been explicitly shut down yet, but the position many politicians and bureaucrats have taken is troubling. Nevermind all the private businesses "voluntarily" ceasing business with Wikileaks.

Not surprisingly, Ron Paul is taking a stand on behalf of Wikileaks.

argatoga said:
There is no authority of what is a government wrong and what is not.
Sure there is; his name is Julian Assange. ;)

No, there is this little thing called international law, and if anything it sets down some basics. To use your own example, nothing so far revealed in these cables is anywhere close to the political perversion that was Operation Ajax.
 
No, there is this little thing called international law, and if anything it sets down some basics. To use your own example, nothing so far revealed in these cables is anywhere close to the political perversion that was Operation Ajax.

Where do you draw the line then? LSD and hookers O.K., agitating the U.S.S.R. by putting missiles close to their border, not O.K. (I'm not implying your position on these tigger). I am against the International Court, U.S. citizens decided what is right and wrong.
 
https://pic.armedcats.net/k/kn/knarkas/2010/12/07/anna.jpg
Anna Ardin

I find it interesting that Anna Ardin, who together with her friend Sofia Wil?n is behind the molestation charges, worked at the Swedish embassy in Washington, and was later deported from Cuba for engaging in subversive activities. Interesting chain of events. It's also very convenient that Ardin have skipped town and gone here for the next three months, a village of 90 people in the middle of nowhere. Picture was uploaded by her on her blog, www.ardin.se, two weeks ago.

http://img52.imageshack.**/img52/9388/sheepyanoun.th.jpg

Ardin has left quite a trail on the internet...
Counterpunch.org said:
Once, as she was lecturing, a male student in the audience looked at his notes instead of staring at her. Anna Ardin reported him for sexual harassment because he discriminated against her for being a woman and because she claimed he made use of the male ?master suppression technique? in trying to make her feel invisible. As soon as the student learned about her complaint, he contacted her to apologize and explain himself. Anna Ardin?s response was to once again report him for sexual harassment, again because he was using the ?master suppression technique?, this time to belittle her feelings.

Never heard of "master supression techniques"? Had no idea they are illegal? Welcome! I didnt either. Here, have a ruling from Uppsala Universitet, one of the oldest and most prestigeous universities in scandinavia, founded in 1477. It's in swedish sadly but if you're Nomix you can make sense of it. Yes, that PDF is about men not paying attention to women, and thereby using the "master supression technique" to keep all women in the kitchen.

http://www.axess.se/public/document/beslut.pdf

Now for the REALLY interesting stuff.

I have been doing some digging on Marianne Ny, the Gothenburg prosecutor who decided to re-open the case. Marianne Ny is an old friend and professional colleague of Claes Borgstr?m, which is the lawyer that represents Anna Ardin and Sofia Wil?n. Claes Borgstr?m is a ranking social democratic party member, currently serving as the partys spokesman on gender equality issues. Anna Ardin is the political secretary of the social democrat brotherhood movement, representing the christian part of the party, and is very active in gender equality issues within the party.

See how it all comes together?

It's a disgrace to my country.
 
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There's no need to fight this battle, folks, it's already over. Whether Assange walks or not is irrelevant, his website is more than safe with 1000 mirrors, and the 'conspiracy' (in this case - shady government deals, crimes and dirty politics) Assange is after has been crippled and will become less functional and less relevant with every new leak. Officials will be missing public's ear for a long period of time.

IMO, the US (and whoever is after him) really mishandled the issue. They gave him the headlines, the truth, and he looks good winning, while the image if his persuaders worsens day by day. CIA should've simply sent some ex-Afghan military to kill him in the UK with the motive that published Iraqi leak got his combat friend killed, then they could've made a true Hollywood story about the whole thing, and ignore cable leaks altogether.
 
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That's only old info though, not new stuff.

So? Cables hit the torrents days ago, as did his safety package, full archives were mailed to media on day #1, there's no way they can stop it now. In case with the new leaks (about UFOs or Banks or whatever) they will just mail it somewhere, then link it, and it will go viral. One can't beat the Pirate Bay effect.
 
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I don't mind the publishing by the press, I respect their freedom to do so, even more so their fairly reasonable discretion regarding whats safe to be made public. Its the site that's promoting/perpetuating/enabling the idea that you should steal secret and classified sh*t from your government en masse that doesn't tickle my fancy. In the same way that I support the illegality of protests that promote and incite violence. and I don't necessarily think the government should be the ones to shut wikileaks down unless it was determined that they helped in the actual theft of the documents.

Theft is not what has happened here. The original papers are still there. (Oh God, I'm using the piracy analogy and I apologise.) But this is one way that Governments are brought to heel - they are for the people after all.

It seems that Visa and Mastercard have stopped accepting payments to Wikileaks. More censorship. (Or, "some speech is free, for everything else, there is Mastercard".) I suppose their execs sleep safe in the knowledge that they are not funding such a dangerous thing. Wonder if they'll stop accepting payments for goods which raise money for the Ku Klux Klan?
 
Today's Obama press conference just ended, not a single question about the leaks, it's unbelievable how scared are the US journalists of their beloved establishment. Looks more and more like our communist regime here 20 years ago.
While I definitely wish the White House Press Corp would grow a pair, I hardly think it's a sign that they're "scared" of Obama. They're journalists. They know this can't be stopped.

Where do you draw the line then? LSD and hookers O.K., agitating the U.S.S.R. by putting missiles close to their border, not O.K. (I'm not implying your position on these tigger). I am against the International Court, U.S. citizens decided what is right and wrong.
I should clarify. I'm not saying there's a line. Just that the information so far revealed has not been anything terrible. A bit of it may actually positively benefit US foreign policy and most of it is more or less gossip. In my opinion the long term effects of this leak (on governmental transparency) will be worse than anything we learn. But then again, 99.5% of the cables have yet to be released, so maybe there's better stuff to come.
 
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I really fail to see how companies distancing themselves from wikileaks is so horrible. By all means I hope they have info on Bank of America, but Amazon and Paypal? What'd they do besides protect their employees and owners best interests?
The problem is that it's obvious that the United States government pushed for it. In the case of Amazon, we know it because they said so. In the case of PayPal, it's probably the same. It's the US government putting pressure on a company to silence someone. It's maybe not a clear infringement of the first, but it surely breaks the spirit of it. It's disgusting.

What is so surprising? The United States has not gone after the various news organizations that have analyzed and published the leaks.
So go after the guy who leaked it, the guy who broke the law. Julian Assange has not broken any law publishing said documents, none of the other news outlets that has published it has broken any law either, and unless the first ammendment is just something that doesn't matter anymore, there's little the US government can do to make what he's done illegal either.

There is a huge difference between freedom of the press and leaking confidential documents.
Yeah. But that's a question of protection of sources. Few nations legislate on it, except Sweden, funily enough. In Sweden, it's illegal for a journalist to reveal his source if the source doesn't want his name known. It's in the constitution.

However, that's one issue. Mr. Assange hasn't leaked any documents, he's publishing them through a website, this is journalism and the illegality of the leak itself does not make the publishing of said papers illegal. The guy who leaked them has broken federal US law, no one breaks federal US law by publishing it, and as Assange is not in the US at present, he could not be prosecuted for it either. If someone tries to prosecute him for publishing said documents, he's got a very real claim of political asylum. And funily enough, he'd probably get such asylum in Sweden (or the United States if he'd released cables from Iran). The US is actually a good place to start, as he can't be prosecuted for his journalism there. He can be held in contempt of congress, though, if he doesn't reveal his source. And then he'd break the Swedish constitution, I guess. Funny how things turn out, isn't it?

people are going to spin this WikiLeaks thing however it helps their argument. there are a reason sectrets are kept. no matter your view im sure we can all understand this.
Sure. But it's just not relevant to the basic question of wether or not Wikileaks has broken the law. They haven't. And personally, I'm quite disgusted at how senior government officials in civilized nations has asked for him to be "taken out", with or without those exact words. Oh, and some dick in the Aussie government has done it as well, but that government is anything but civilized. Didn't the foreign minister of Australia say that "Assange must understand that he must follow the laws of other nations"?

Sure, Assange might have broken the law in Saudi Arabia. Because the law in Saudi Arabia is anything the royal family decides it to be. But he hasn't broken the law in the US. And even if he had, it would be completely irrelevant as he isn't in the United States, but in Sweden (or for that matter the UK), and I fail to see how a member of the Australian government can say that one of his citizens has to follow the laws of other nations without puking over the assembled press, disgusted by what he said.

This is a no brainer. Someone broke the law. It wasn't Assange. Conservative dicks and arrogant government official dicks should keep their trappers closed and stop talking like they were Lloyd George, for heaven's sake.
 
I've been reading up on the rape allegations and it's rather surprising (to me at least). How is it possible to claim a broken condom to be rape? The woman said that he ripped the condom on purpose, which I don't know what to think about other than it sounds weird. The second one is more straight-forward, they were supposed to use condom, but didn't, for which he is an idiot, but not really a rapist.

"How the rape claims against Julian Assange sparked an information war"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/07/rape-claims-julian-assange
 
https://pic.armedcats.net/k/kn/knarkas/2010/12/07/anna.jpg
She looks like she could make a great pie.

The problem is that it's obvious that the United States government pushed for it. In the case of Amazon, we know it because they said so. In the case of PayPal, it's probably the same. It's the US government putting pressure on a company to silence someone. It's maybe not a clear infringement of the first, but it surely breaks the spirit of it. It's disgusting.

Amazon Press Release said:
There have been reports that a government inquiry prompted us not to serve WikiLeaks any longer. That is inaccurate.

There have also been reports that it was prompted by massive DDOS attacks. That too is inaccurate. There were indeed large-scale DDOS attacks, but they were successfully defended against.

Amazon Web Services (AWS) rents computer infrastructure on a self-service basis. AWS does not pre-screen its customers, but it does have terms of service that must be followed. WikiLeaks was not following them. There were several parts they were violating. For example, our terms of service state that "you represent and warrant that you own or otherwise control all of the rights to the content... that use of the content you supply does not violate this policy and will not cause injury to any person or entity." It's clear that WikiLeaks doesn't own or otherwise control all the rights to this classified content. Further, it is not credible that the extraordinary volume of 250,000 classified documents that WikiLeaks is publishing could have been carefully redacted in such a way as to ensure that they weren't putting innocent people in jeopardy. Human rights organizations have in fact written to WikiLeaks asking them to exercise caution and not release the names or identities of human rights defenders who might be persecuted by their governments.

We've been running AWS for over four years and have hundreds of thousands of customers storing all kinds of data on AWS. Some of this data is controversial, and that's perfectly fine. But, when companies or people go about securing and storing large quantities of data that isn't rightfully theirs, and publishing this data without ensuring it won't injure others, it's a violation of our terms of service, and folks need to go operate elsewhere.

We look forward to continuing to serve our AWS customers and are excited about several new things we have coming your way in the next few months.

-- Amazon Web Services
 
However, that's one issue. Mr. Assange hasn't leaked any documents, he's publishing them through a website, this is journalism and the illegality of the leak itself does not make the publishing of said papers illegal. The guy who leaked them has broken federal US law, no one breaks federal US law by publishing it

If Assange was involved in getting the documents in the first place, then yes it would be illegal, which is a basis for the criminal investigation the Justice Department is doing, and why it is not investigating any of the news outlets.
 
She looks like she could make a great pie.
Right, they just did a random screening. Okay. They won't say it outright. But it still stinks like old underpants. This isn't an issue of copyright, it's an issue of freedom of the press.

If Assange was involved in getting the documents in the first place, then yes it would be illegal, which is a basis for the criminal investigation the Justice Department is doing, and why it is not investigating any of the news outlets.
Well, if he charged someone in doing it, yes. But if a journalist can be prosecuted for getting asked "do you want 250 000 secret documents" and answers "yes", then freedom of the press in the United States is under attack. Then again, it has been for ages, as congressional comittees have the sad habit of slamming journalists with contempt of congress because they won't reveal their sources. It's a disgrace as well.

But one thing I wonder, those of you who are critical of Assange and his business, do you support the death treaths against him by politicians and the likes?
 
Right, they just did a random screening. Okay. They won't say it outright. But it still stinks like old underpants. This isn't an issue of copyright, it's an issue of freedom of the press.

Are you sure you're not letting your obvious bias cloud your judgment? Their explanation makes perfect sense. All this freedom of speech/press bs is great and all, but that doesn't give you the right to force others to be complicit with your questionable actions/agenda.

Personally, this whole thing seems like the political equivalent of stealing your big sisters diary, so you and your douchebag friends can read it and laugh and laugh and laugh. I guess I'm too young to know what journalists with integrity are actually like. Seems like most of them are only in it for personal gain.
 
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