[08x02] May 14th, 2006

[zenkidori]

Originally Posted by SL65AMG~V12~612BHP!!!!!!!

^Thats two spam like posts from you. Don't keep it up mate

lol, way to be a mod

Good job letting OT BS continue, but when someone says something about it damn you're sure the man, mate.

[RichW]

Poor Episode actually. Felt weak. Like someone many pages back, I go by whether I want to watch the repeat on Monday. And unlike the 1st ep of this series, this one didnt grab me at all. Repeating Gordon Ramsey (who actually came across as alright) was a little odd. Radio Show was a bit too crigeworthy for my taste too.

Re the Corvette thing. Im fairly sure they will sell less than 20 in the UK. Less than 500 in the whole of Europe even. Even with this relatively glowing praise from JC. What our American users need to understand is that people in Europe do dismiss anything American as being shite. We aren't the same as you at all. So we like different things. And what we dont want is American products.

Obviously the Z (thats "Zed" not "Zee" - Honestly we gave you the language and you make it ridiculous ) 06 is designed primarily for your domestic market and obviously our road networks vary significantly. A 2500 Mile road trip would take me through most of Europe! And most of the roads would be twisty. And as a result I dont believe that you can have a car well designed for both. Corvettes work in America, they dont work here in real world applications. Its that simple. And for the £60K our buyers wil have an M5, or a RS4 or a 911. As its designed for our markets.

[teeb]

Originally Posted by RichW

Re the Corvette thing. Im fairly sure they will sell less than 20 in the UK. Less than 500 in the whole of Europe even. Even with this relatively glowing praise from JC. What our American users need to understand is that people in Europe do dismiss anything American as being shite. We aren't the same as you at all. So we like different things. And what we dont want is American products.

Let me refine that : we don't want to buy something that, from our [possibly stereotyped] point of view, America has always been weak at.

We're happy to buy iPods and Xboxes - America is well known as being great at producing techy stuff - you've got Apple, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo...lots of big technological firms.

Ditto foodstuffs - we'll eat McDonalds and Burger King [admittedly sparingly], Subway, Coke or Pepsi [only when there isn't Irn Bru available ] and so forth.

We'll devour your TV programmes - Lost, the Simpsons, Family Guy and so forth.

It's just when it comes to cars our tastes tend to be different from yours [the Chrysler 300C is the exception that proves the rule]. We know you make quality TV [along with a lot of pap], we know you make great websites, businesses, and foodstuffs, it's just your cars are less renowned - especially when they, generally, have much stronger competition over here than the aforementioned products.

Think it's because we Europeans are proud of what we do well - we drink European beer [or Budweiser if there's no alternative], we drive German or French cars [or Japanese, but I'm ignoring that for the sake of this argument], our furniture is flat-packed and Swedish...you get the idea.

[VUK]

tell you what if i had 60k to spend i would defo buy the z06

[rubenanibal]

Originally Posted by RichW

What our American users need to understand is that people in Europe do dismiss anything American as being shite. We aren't the same as you at all. So we like different things. And what we dont want is American products.

Originally Posted by teeb

It's just when it comes to cars our tastes tend to be different from yours

I'm Peruvian and I fell exactly the same...we prefer european, japanese, even korean cars to north american ones....

[jetsetter]

That is one of the reasons why US companies such as Ford and GM have bought and control European car companies.

General Motors Corporation, also known as GM, is an American automobile maker with worldwide operations and brands including Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Holden, Hummer, Opel, Pontiac, Saturn, Saab and Vauxhall.

Europe
At first, Ford in Germany and the United Kingdom built different models from one another until the late 1960s, with the Ford Escort and then the Ford Capri being common to both companies. Later on, the Ford Taunus and Ford Cortina became identical, produced in left hand drive and right hand drive respectively. Rationalisation of model ranges meant that production of many models in the UK switched to elsewhere in Europe, including Belgium and Spain as well as Germany. The Ford Sierra replaced the Taunus and Cortina in 1982, drawing criticism for its radical aerodynamic styling, which was soon given nicknames such as "Jellymould" and "The Salesman's Spaceship".

Increasingly, Ford Motor Company has looked to Ford of Europe for its "world cars," such as the Mondeo, Focus, and Fiesta, although sales of European-sourced Fords in the U.S. have been disappointing. In Asia, models from Europe are not as competitively priced as Japanese-built rivals, nor are they perceived as reliable. The Focus has been one exception to this, which has become America's best selling compact car since its launch in 2000.

In 2001, Ford ended car production in the UK. It was the first time in more than eighty years that Ford cars had not been made in Britain, although production of the Transit van continues at the company's Southampton facility, engines at Bridgend and Dagenham, and transmissions at Halewood. Development of European Ford is broadly split between Dunton in Essex (powertrain, Fiesta/Ka and commercial vehicles) and Cologne (body, chassis, electrical, Focus, Mondeo) in Germany. Ford also produced the Thames range of commercial vehicles although the use of this brand name was discontinued circa 1965. It owns the Jaguar, Land Rover, and Aston Martin car plants in Britain which are still operational. Ford's Halewood Assembly Plant was converted to Jaguar production.

Elsewhere in continental Europe, Ford assembles the Mondeo range in Genk (Belgium), Fiesta in Valencia (Spain) and Cologne (Germany), Ka in Valencia and Focus in Valencia, Saarlouis (Germany) and St. Petersberg (Russia). Transit production is in Kocaeli (Turkey), Southampton (UK), and Transit Connect in Kocaeli.

Ford also owns a joint venture production plant in Turkey. Ford-Otosan, established in the 1970s, manufactures the Transit Connect compact panel van as well as the "Jumbo" and long wheelbase versions of the full-size Transit. This new production facility was set up near Kocaeli in 2002, and its opening marked the end of Transit assembly in Genk. Another joint venture plant near Setubal in Portugal, set up in collaboration with Volkswagen, assembles the Galaxy people carrier as well as its sister ship, the VW Sharan.

Asia Pacific
In Australia and New Zealand, the popular Ford Falcon is considered the typical (if not particularly economical) family car, though it is considerably larger than the Mondeo sold in Europe. Between 1960 and 1972, the Falcon was based on a U.S. Ford of that name, but since then has been entirely designed and manufactured locally. Like its General Motors rival, the Holden Commodore, the 4.0 L Falcon retains rear wheel drive. High performance variants of the Falcon running locally-built engines produce up to 390 hp. A ute (short for "utility," known in the US as pickup truck) version is also available with a similar range of drivetrains. In addition, Ford Australia sells highly-tuned Falcon sedans and utes through its performance car division, Ford Performance Vehicles. These cars produce over 400 hp and are built in small numbers to increase their value as collectors' cars.

In both Australia and New Zealand, the Commodore and Falcon outsell all other cars. In Australia they comprise over 20% of the new car market.

Ford's presence in Asia has traditionally been much smaller. However, with the acquisition of a stake in Japanese manufacturer Mazda in 1979, Ford began selling Mazda's Familia and Capella (also known as the 323 and 626) as the Ford Laser and Telstar. The Laser was one of the most successful models sold by Ford in Australia, and outsold the Mazda 323, despite being almost identical to it. The Laser was also built in Mexico and sold in the U.S. as the Mercury Tracer, while the 1989 American Ford Escort was based on the Laser/Mazda 323. The smaller Mazda 121 was also sold in the U.S. and Asia as the Ford Festiva.

Through its relationship with Mazda, Ford also acquired a stake in South Korean manufacturer Kia, which later built the Ford Aspire for export to the United States, but later sold the company to Hyundai. Ironically, Hyundai also manufactured the Ford Cortina until the 1980s. Ford also has a joint venture with Lio Ho in Taiwan, which assembled Ford models locally since the 1970s.

Ford came to India in 1998 with its Ford Escort model, which was later replaced by locally produced Ford Ikon in 2001. It has since added Fusion, Fiesta, Mondeo and Endeavour to its product line.

South America
In South America, Ford has had to face protectionist government measures in each country, with the result that it built different models in different countries, without particular regard to rationalisation or economy of scale inherent to producing and sharing similar vehicles between the nations. In many cases, new vehicles in a country were based on those of the other manufacturers it had entered into production agreements with, or whose factories it had acquired. For example, the Corcel and Del Rey in Brazil were originally based on Renault vehicles.

In 1987, Ford merged its operations in Brazil and Argentina with those of Volkswagen to form a company called Autolatina, with which it shared models. Sales figures and profitability were disappointing, and Autolatina was dissolved in 1995. With the advent of Mercosur, the regional common market, Ford was finally able to rationalise its product line-ups in those countries. Consequently, the Ford Fiesta and Ford EcoSport are only built in Brazil, and the Ford Focus only built in Argentina, with each plant exporting in large volumes to the neighbouring countries. Models like the Ford Mondeo from Europe could now be imported completely built up. Ford of Brazil produces a pick-up truck version of the Fiesta, the Courier, which is also produced in South Africa as the Ford Bantam in right hand drive versions.

Africa and Middle East
In Africa and the Middle East, Ford's market presence has traditionally been strongest in South Africa and neighbouring countries, with only trucks being sold elsewhere on the continent. Ford in South Africa began by importing kits from Canada to be assembled at its Port Elizabeth facility. Later Ford sourced its models from the UK and Australia, with local versions of the Ford Cortina including the XR6, with a 3.0 V6 engine, and a Cortina 'bakkie' or pick-up, which was exported to the UK. In the mid-1980s Ford merged with a rival company, owned by Anglo American, to form the South African Motor Corporation (Samcor).

Following international condemnation of apartheid, Ford divested from South Africa in 1988, and sold its stake in Samcor, although it licensed the use of its brand name to the company. Samcor began to assemble Mazdas as well, which affected its product line-up, which saw the European Fords like the Escort and Sierra replaced by the Mazda-based Laser and Telstar. Ford bought a 45 per cent stake in Samcor following the demise of apartheid in 1994, and this later became, once again, a wholly owned subsidiary, the Ford Motor Company of Southern Africa. Ford now sells a local sedan version of the Fiesta (also built in India and Mexico), and the Focus and Mondeo Europe. The Falcon model from Australia was also sold in South Africa, but was dropped in 2003.

Ford's market presence in the Middle East has traditionally been even smaller, partly due to previous Arab boycotts of companies dealing with Israel. Ford and Lincoln vehicles are currently marketed in ten countries in the region. [3] Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and the UAE are the biggest markets. [4] Ford's distributor in Saudi Arabia announced in February 2003 that it had sold 100,000 Ford and Lincoln vehicles since commencing sales in November 1986. Half of the Ford/Lincoln vehicles sold in that country were Ford Crown Victorias. [5] In 2004, Ford sold 30,000 units in the region, falling far short of General Motors' 88,852 units and Nissan Motors' 75,000 units.

[No Boss]

Originally Posted by RichW

What our American users need to understand is that people in Europe do dismiss anything American as being shite. We aren't the same as you at all. So we like different things. And what we dont want is American products.

What about like foods, movies, and music? I'm not trying to be a dick or start an arguement I'm just curious about the European lifestyle.

Is there anything over there that's american specific that you guys use alot?

[teeb]

Originally Posted by No Boss

What about like foods, movies, and music? I'm not trying to be a dick or start an arguement I'm just curious about the European lifestyle.

Is there anything over there that's american specific that you guys use alot?

Have a look at my post up there for an inkling.

As for films, British filmmaking has pretty much died out, besides the odd big hit [Trainspotting, for example] and most British films are now imitating the American 'blockbuster' style in order to try and make money.

French cinema is very healthy though, there're many small independant French films - as they are heavily subsidised by the government. There's also much more of a cinema culture in France than the UK. Don't know about the rest of Europe.

Foods? There're the ubiquitous American fast-food places in most big towns [McDs, Burger King] but in each country there's a heavy element on the local food. Chippies in the UK, for example. Patisseries [selling sweet things] and creperies [selling crepes, large thin pancakes that can be savoury or sour, with fillings, and are delicious freshly made] in France, and so forth. You get the idea. I suspect we eat out more, and are much less reliant on ready-to-boil/microwave than America, and tend to put some effort into most dinners.

Music is a bit like film - there are the 'big name' American artists that are successful here [I daren't name any], but they don't dominate the music scene in the way that American films do the cinema. They're just a small part of it, and there're loads of bands around all the time of all different genres.

You could, if you're really curious, start a thread in Off Topic asking for people to expand a bit about the culture of their country / area. I'd certainly have fun explaining neds to the world :/

[triumph]

Is there anything over there that's american specific that you guys use alot?

Well I just bought a new pair of sebago!They are made in USA and indestructible ! But apart from a old pair of rayban and this shoes I don't think I've got something US made .Real US products (US made) are quite expensive however we buy lots of US brandnames but like everything now they're coming from Asia .

[canessjc]

Well, this thread has tilted towards a discussion between the likes of american and european car lovers, and maybe some of the comments i made continued the discussions. we won't agree in some preferences, or conceptions about how a car should be, what we like, or which car we would buy, but we share the same taste for speed, for good cars and the passion of driving. i'm not particularly fond of american cars, though there are many that just can't be set as part of the pile, the corvettes, mustangs, shelbys, gts, etc etc etc and that's what really counts.

Just hope next ep will be better and more of the TG style, until then cheers to everyone!
8)

[No Boss]

Originally Posted by teeb

Have a look at my post up there for an inkling.

As for films, British filmmaking has pretty much died out, besides the odd big hit [Trainspotting, for example] and most British films are now imitating the American 'blockbuster' style in order to try and make money.

French cinema is very healthy though, there're many small independant French films - as they are heavily subsidised by the government. There's also much more of a cinema culture in France than the UK. Don't know about the rest of Europe.

Foods? There're the ubiquitous American fast-food places in most big towns [McDs, Burger King] but in each country there's a heavy element on the local food. Chippies in the UK, for example. Patisseries [selling sweet things] and creperies [selling crepes, large thin pancakes that can be savoury or sour, with fillings, and are delicious freshly made] in France, and so forth. You get the idea. I suspect we eat out more, and are much less reliant on ready-to-boil/microwave than America, and tend to put some effort into most dinners.

Music is a bit like film - there are the 'big name' American artists that are successful here [I daren't name any], but they don't dominate the music scene in the way that American films do the cinema. They're just a small part of it, and there're loads of bands around all the time of all different genres.

You could, if you're really curious, start a thread in Off Topic asking for people to expand a bit about the culture of their country / area. I'd certainly have fun explaining neds to the world :/

Right on. I'm pretty familiar with some of the customs in certian parts of Europe, but it's always the little things that I'm interested in finding out. I just can't wait till I graduate (1 more year), so i can come over there and see what it's really like.

[Basscadet]

Originally Posted by RichW

Obviously the Z (thats "Zed" not "Zee" - Honestly we gave you the language and you make it ridiculous )

A Zebra is pronounced "zee-bra" not "zed-e-bra". So if you were to take just the first letter and pronounce it, "zee" makes more sense than "zed".

I hate many American cars just as much as many of my fellow Americans do, but honestly do not pretend that the cars that are coming out of the UK are any better. Range Rovers? Rubbish that leak oil after 10,000 miles. Jaguar? Slow heavy cars for old men. Aston Martin? Expensive pretty cars that are always running second to the prancing horse.

Why don't we just agree that the German, Japanese, and Italians are the only ones making cars for enthusiasts and be done with this ridiculous posturing?

[No Boss]

Originally Posted by Basscadet

A Zebra is pronounced "zee-bra" not "zed-e-bra". So if you were to take just the first letter and pronounce it, "zee" makes more sense than "zed".

No...because it's spelt "Zebra", that "e" makes it pronounced with a long "E". Maybe if it didn't have that "e" it would be pronounced Zed-bra, but it's not.

[indianajohn]

No... hang on. This is why the rest of the world doesn't like America, they forget they're not the only country out there. In every other English-speaking country in the world, zebra has no long ee. It's Zebra. Not Zeebra. And our version came first too.

I reckon both first episodes were awesome. I hope Top Gear doesn't listen to the people who are complaining about the Jag video, that was just brilliant. The BMW 6 series has been tested twice (645i on the beach in wales, and the M6 on the Isle of Man), and the SL has also been tested (Jeremy's SL55). The content on those two was perfect, it wasn't a test of them, he just used them to make a point. Think of it as extra content for the Jaguar video, which is exactly what it was.

Why is everyone here so picky? Just enjoy Top Gear.

[Hiro11]

Originally Posted by indianajohn

No... hang on. This is why the rest of the world doesn't like America, they forget they're not the only country out there. In every other English-speaking country in the world, zebra has no long ee. It's Zebra. Not Zeebra. And our version came first too.

Yes, because we pronounce the word "zebra" slightly differently, it clearly indicates that we have "forgotten that we are not the only country in the world".

Put down your copy of the Guardian, John and step slowly back. Everything will be alright.

[ishigakisensei]

Originally Posted by Basscadet

I hate many American cars just as much as many of my fellow Americans do, but honestly do not pretend that the cars that are coming out of the UK are any better.

I don't expect this to happen, but why doesn't Top Gear take a look at handcrafted automobiles both from the US and the UK. The Mosler, Panoz, and Ultima come to mind. After all, they did drive a Marcos, Ariel Atom, and a Noble.

Kitcars have a bad name in the US due to the fraudulent 1980s, but the UK has a vibrant handbuilt car culture. I think that TG could easily find inexpensive supercar examples while waiting for the big boys to release cars later this year.

[kekekeke]

I thought Ultima was british.

[NecroJoe]

The Saleen S7 twin turbo beats the Bugatti Veyron to 250 (mathmatically...of course nothing's been proven by EITHER company), and costs under $600K. It's sister car earned 7 GT racing championchips, and this roadgoing version is cheaper and more powerful. Even though it only has 750 HP, it only weighs 3036, while the veyron weighs 4500. The Saleen gets 0-100 faster than an Enzo. *shrugs* Have they ever even MENTIONED it on Top Gear? I've heard them mention the Panoz, but the styling looks like a late 90's miata with a body kit...

~nj?

[Dins]

In the Z06 review, where JC starts in 5th and continues on, did anyone else notice that he actually changes gear? It's at around 6,000rpm at 105mph and then 6,000rpm again at 150mph, which obviously means they changed gears.

[No Boss]

Originally Posted by NecroJoe

Have they ever even MENTIONED it on Top Gear? I've heard them mention the Panoz, but the styling looks like a late 90's miata with a body kit...

~nj?

No it never has. Principally because they tend to talk about REAL cars.

Seriously though, I don't think they have ever mentioned the S7.