[13x04] July 12th, 2009

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by cookiebun

I'll second that motion.

TopGear stealing failed Fifth Gear ideas? No thanks, TopGear has already dumbed itself down far enough.

[Peldie]

This whole season 13 has been quite different beast than the - let's say - previous 7 or 8 seasons so far.
In my opinion, there has been huge amounts of excellent bits and pieces of cinematography, visual effects, jokes, rant, amazing cars, races and the usual stuff that makes us like Top Gear so much, but something's missing.
I think this last episode is nice and entertaining and it is better viewed in pieces rather than in whole episode. And that's what's been bothering me in the whole season: the episodes are somehow vague, confusing and a bit rushed, if you know what I mean. There are great pieces, but the end result is incoherent. I don't know if that's due to some changes in budget, scripting or maybe editing (if you compare these episodes to the probably re-edited version of old TG episodes that runs on BBC Knowledge or some sort, you know what I mean), but it's there. I just can't put my finger on it.

There have also been quite a long waiting time between seasons 12 and 13 and I think this affects the general opinion somehow - the hype and wait has been maybe a bit too much...I want to believe that the season 13 will rise to the very best seasons of TG in some time, gets better with age like wine...and women...and some cars...and music...mostly.

Any comments?

[watto]

Well, I really quite enjoyed it. Usain Bolt was an engaging guest, just like Steven Fry was... they've done well this season.

I thought the Panamera challenge/review was a bit silly. 8/10.

[Cobol74]

I'd go with that actually - one of the reasons I marked it down from a 9.

[Icedvovo]

Originally Posted by TomCat

TopGear stealing failed Fifth Gear ideas? No thanks, TopGear has already dumbed itself down far enough.

I recently started watching FG after having not watched it for many years I was actually surprised how good it was these days (IMHO).

REF: Death Row Cars - If there's an idea being left on the footpath for council pickup, then I'm sure TGA will have it! Bit of polish and a couple of tek screws and she'll be as good as new mate.

[flydiscovery]

Originally Posted by Icedvovo

REF: Death Row Cars - If there's an idea being left on the footpath for council pickup, then I'm sure TGA will have it! Bit of polish and a couple of tek screws and she'll be as good as new mate.

LOL. Funny. TGA isn't THAT bad though. I kind of like it.

[FearTheWolf]

It's already been said a million times that no way it was live fire, but we might as well have the proof:

Screen cap from 55:27 of the FoV rip

These rounds are clearly blanks, because they've got the tell-tale crimped ends.
Interestingly though, of the times they show the ammunition closely enough to identify, that's the only one where it's actually blanks. Every other close-up is of live rounds.

More interesting is that the fact that the BBC thinks we're idiots. To be honest, I wouldn't have had any problem with that segment if they'd not lied about it. If they'd done it, admitting (or omitting) the fact that it was blanks and without pretending that JC was in the car when the Trojan was using it as a play-thing, then just shot the crap out of it at the end - that would have been fine with me.

It was in my opinion a good segment aside from the blatant lies, which took a lot of the entertainment out of it. I know lots of the show is staged, but that took suspension of disbelief a little too far.

[Kiskaloo]

Originally Posted by Peldie

This whole season 13 has been quite different beast than the - let's say - previous 7 or 8 seasons so far...I think this last episode is nice and entertaining and it is better viewed in pieces rather than in whole episode. And that's what's been bothering me in the whole season: the episodes are somehow vague, confusing and a bit rushed, if you know what I mean. There are great pieces, but the end result is incoherent.

For me, Series 13 has kind of been like a meal that looked better on the plate then it did in my stomach. As in, I liked it at first glance (eating), but after I've had time to "digest" it, I find that it wasn't really as satisfying as I'd thought.

I think no small part of it is that it's Top Gear and I love Top Gear so I'm happy to be able to watch it and I tend to just gloss over the whole thing the first time through and bask in the "freshness" of it.

So far, I haven't had a burning desire to go back and re-watch Series 13. I seldom need an excuse to re-watch Top Gear (especially Series 7 or 10), but to date, 13 just hasn't "hooked" me.

I still am glad it's new. And I will download the torrents and when the iTunes Season Pass hits the US store I will subscribe to it. But so far, this is not one of my favorite seasons by a long shot.

I know Andy said they'd do the normal great episodes until the cash ran out, and make the last one "crap", but I can't help but feel that maybe they changed their minds, and are just...lowering their ambitions (not their standards)...a bit to make the monies stretch out across the whole Series.

[javierel22]

Nice Focus RS/Megane segment, quite good. The Panamera race was indeed quite silly and pointless, but still entertaining, and the same goes for that evo VII against the army. I would give the episode 8/10.

[jeremysg]

Originally Posted by FearTheWolf

It was in my opinion a good segment aside from the blatant lies, which took a lot of the entertainment out of it. I know lots of the show is staged, but that took suspension of disbelief a little too far.

honest question here, and i'm not trying to troll or be mean here...

but do you get pissed off at magicians when they make a person disapear? when that person really just hid under the floor?


If they had said "we took this car out, to be shot at with blanks, while i drive around like an idiot", i woulda been totally pissed about them wasting the time.


i suppose we have differing views on how we want to be entertained...

[TomCat]

Originally Posted by FearTheWolf

More interesting is that the fact that the BBC thinks we're idiots.

Yeah, that's very true. They've been dumbing down the show for a while now. Trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Everything has to be fast, flashy, big, and shiny. Otherwise that big chunk of audience who have the attention span of a retarded cockroach would lose interest and change the channel. It seems to me that they're trying to turn TopGear into the automotive equivalent of The Three Stooges. We tune in to see what the bumbling fools have gotten themselves into this time. Kinda sad really, since the show was so clever and witty during the earlier seasons after Jezza revived it. Now they can't afford to be boring, so every segment has to be over the top and massively over produced.

I'll still tune in every week though, because they do manage to sneak a good quality segment in every once in a while.

[the Interceptor]

Originally Posted by jeremysg

honest question here, and i'm not trying to troll or be mean here...

but do you get pissed off at magicians when they make a person disapear? when that person really just hid under the floor?


If they had said "we took this car out, to be shot at with blanks, while i drive around like an idiot", i woulda been totally pissed about them wasting the time.

So would I. Which tells me that the entire segment should have been fundamentally different. They had an Evo to play around and destroy afterwards. Doesn't mean they needed to include the Army in this.

[ozgirl]

Originally Posted by the Interceptor

So would I. Which tells me that the entire segment should have been fundamentally different. They had an Evo to play around and destroy afterwards. Doesn't mean they needed to include the Army in this.

No of course they didn't need to, but (as i've stated before) Jezza is a patron of Help for Heroes, he obviously has high regard (i think quite rightly) for the Armed Forces, and as the driving force behind TG, he has a huge input into the construction of a segment. One of the reasons we love Jezza (if not, why watch TG?) is his strong opinions. If one of the ways these opinions manifest themselves is lots of armed Forces segments, then i'm quite happy to have them.

[the Interceptor]

Originally Posted by ozgirl

No of course they didn't need to, but (as i've stated before) Jezza is a patron of Help for Heroes, he obviously has high regard (i think quite rightly) for the Armed Forces, and as the driving force behind TG, he has a huge input into the construction of a segment. One of the reasons we love Jezza (if not, why watch TG?) is his strong opinions. If one of the ways these opinions manifest themselves is lots of armed Forces segments, then i'm quite happy to have them.

I didn't have any problem with the later army segments as well, such as the Fiesta review or the Boxster vs. SLK comparison. I loved those segments, and I have nothing against the British Army whatsoever. I just think that this latest Evo segment was no good at all. And since saying that they of course wouldn't use live bullets wouldn't have made it any better, I didn't really see the reason for the Army's involvement here. Top Gear can do better than that, they should have known that writing such a segment doesn't really work.

[kunedog]

Originally Posted by skylock

And I absolutely believe they had live rounds. When they use fake ones, the guns are marked in a way to indicate so. I think that is a firm military rule and none of the guns were marked. I think they were probably firing over his head when he was actually in the car.

You obviously missed the fake impact sounds durnig his closeup shots (i.e. the "redneck rock" effect).

[FearTheWolf]

Originally Posted by jeremysg

Do you get pissed off at magicians when they make a person disappear? when that person really just hid under the floor?

No. You go in to the theatre under the understanding that it's all trickery.
Hating the magician would be like getting pissed off at a film because the actors aren't actually who they're playing.

Top Gear pretend they're honest. Yes, a lot of it will have actually happened, but my issue is being treated like an idiot. They say it's genuine, then expect me to believe they're going to run a high likelihood of killing Clarkson.

If they had said "we took this car out, to be shot at with blanks, while I drive around like an idiot", I woulda been totally pissed about them wasting the time.

You know that's what they did though.
Which means what they actually said was "We're taking this car out to be shot at with blanks and drive around like an idiot, but we're going to insult your intelligence at the same time"

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be annoyed about a waste of time than annoyed about a waste of time AND insulted.

@TomCat: Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to stop tuning in yet, but it's a pale shadow of what it has been.
But it is getting to the point where I wonder how much further it has to slide before I start questioning whether it's a good use of my time any more.

[sdutton007]

9/10 - The focus RS is just amazing, but what a waste of an evo!

[Manic Moran]

Originally Posted by SR71

Good to see the crazy machinery employed by the army, but sadly, the days of heavy mechanized army are mostly over. These equipment are now more for the car shows than actual warfare. The new wars are being fought by either the soldiers on foot in the streets of the villages and cities or the air force.

Yet 'Real-World-Experience' is proving that nothing says 'I care' quite like seventy tons of armour with really big guns. Take the example of the Canadian Army: Until recently, they were planning on having a completely tank-free army and using only wheeled vehicles. Then they went to Afghanistan and discovered that tanks were still so useful that they put in a rush purchase for a hundred of the things to replaced the older ones that they were going to retire.

Easy way to tell if a machinegun is firing live rounds or blanks if you're not close enough to look at the rounds themselves is to look for the blank firing adapter on the end of the muzzle. It's usually bright red or yellow, and 'caps' the barrel thus forcing the gasses back into the recoil mechanism. If it's not there, the machinegun will only work in single-shot mode. If a gun is firing on full auto without a BFA, then you know they're firing something out the end.

In fairness though, scripted though the Army segment was, was there anyone here who was not surprised when the REME track crushed the roof of the car?

NTM