December 12th, 2004

[darcangelo]

And we could see that jeremy looked pretty relaxed, but the murc driver was really trying hard!

what you talkin about?? The British touring car driver was wearing sunglasses for Pete's sake... And the way I know JC, it was probably the 1st BTC champion's lap around the track, whereas Jeremy knows it by heart...

[Likwid]

Originally Posted by Tha_bounce

I too, would prefer better suspension to, tricked dials, but it all comes down to cost and how much you can keep cost down to survive in the business. The Japanese have that art down to a science, with just in time managment, and other effiencet management skills, to be able to afford to put certain things on a car of that price. Unfortunately, Ford, doesnt, and so in order to cut cost, they have to cut good or better parts. And lets face it, they want to make it affordable, so a lot of peep would own one, and for the 99% of peeps who own a mustang, they have no idea what is under the hood, or tires, so its not a big deal and therefore in that respect they succed....

As some car magazine i read, that tested it, said - They think Ford has taken the retro thing a bit too far!!

I understand and I dont want people to think Im anti Ford... Im not. If GM were still making the F-bodies today I would have the same gripe. I do understand the "cheapness" translates in a better sticker but they've cut corners everywhere and they knew this car would sell on name alone. Adding the updated rear would have worked out for them in the end.

I do understand that all this bang for your buck is a good thing, but it ends up coming back to haunt you with resale. Its that way with the majority of American cars, just more so with the "icons".

Just so Im not a complete Mr. Negitive about the Stang.... at least it doesnt suck as much as their first retro attempt.... the Thunderbird

Originally Posted by klch

sometimes ago in US, there had been some child locked up in the trunk and died, so almost all car has this feature now

It's the logic behind the release that confuses me, not the release its self. Since its invention, the refrigerator has claimed more lives then any other accident..... but yet tens of years later and the automobile trunk gets the saftey feature.

Also, if it was in fact put in place for reasons of kidnapping.... dont you think the kidnapper would use another car?

[Overheat]

In this episode I really couldn't help bursting out laughing REALLY loud when he mentioned the death of the kids. Funniest ever! fantastic, my family thought I was insane!

[andyhui01]

Originally Posted by Overheat

I really couldn't help bursting out laughing REALLY loud when he mentioned the death of the kids

dats what I love about clarkson... if he hates a car... he would find every reason in the world to say it crap... I would love a car as quite as that... my dad drives a Lexus GS300 and its already considered really quite to me

[skorgu]

One quick thing about the 'stang. I'm not to partial to it, and I think live axles belong in rock crawlers not sports cars, but they do serve a purpose. My understanding of the whole live axle thing is that its absolute shite for going around corners, but for drag racing its better. Something about wheel bite, I dunno.

But honestly I think the Legacy was robbed! saying a VW is better than a Subaru, they're insane! I mean yeah, sure the GTI might be a good car, but AWD just puts the sube in a whole different league! {END SUBARU WHORE MODE}

Also, they did conveniently forget a few factors when they talked about the Prius. The first is that gasoline (petrol) and diesel have totally different pollution types. Gas is higher in all but one or two things, but diesel is WAY higher, like four or five times higher in the two that it is higher in. So its a tradeoff, and depending on what you're measuring 40mpg petrol might be cleaner than 60mpg diesel.

Also, he's reviewing it (sensibly) from Europe where diesel is easy to get. Here in the 'states its not so convenient, so the Prius makes even more sense. Also, the Prius is the most efficient petrol-powerd four-seater around, so I think he gave it way more of a raw deal than it deserves.

I think the Honda Hybrids are infinitely cooler however

[qube]

Originally Posted by smeghead

The whole idea of a turbo is to get more air in the engine so you can whack fuel in quicker, so obviously with a bitchin' turbo doing serious work, you're going to chew up petrol at an alarmign rate. But then you can calm it down and it'll be much better, whereas a big V8 will drink massive amounts of fuel all the time, no matter how gently you drive.

Sam

Not true, V8's rev so low that under normal driving they're fine.

My car has a 5.7l V8 and at 2500RPM does 100 MPH (red line is 5000).

On a cruise it does over 30MPG which is OK, round town it drops to about 21 and if you spank it it drops to about 10!

I get better milage than my mates 300ZX and have a similar power output.

Not bad for a 16 year old car that weighs 1.75 tons!

If you compared the Evo to the Corvette or Monaro I'd be surprised if the V8 was more thirsty.

Matthew

[jmX]

Originally Posted by smeghead

whereas a big V8 will drink massive amounts of fuel all the time, no matter how gently you drive.

Sam

I too have a nearly 6L V8 in my vehicle and on a recent trip across the united states I got 32mpg. The car puts out 450hp. <shrug> In the city, its not nearly as good, but around here I'm almost always on highways to get where I need to go. I'm sure things arent like that in european cities tho, so I could see how V8's would be less attractive elsewhere.


As for the mustang test, its not so much the solid rear axle that made me thing it'd handle like crap, its the fact that its a mustang. Ford cant ever seem to make a base model mustang that handles. GM did ok with the 3rd and 4th generations of their camaro/firebird car, why couldnt Ford? Both had solid rear axles. The ford had awful brake dive, sloppy handling, and a rear axle setup that didnt even include a panhard rod or torque arm...it truely was a rear setup from the 60's. I wanted to see if finally, the newest mustang had fixed those issues, but for some reason they didnt test it on the track.

[maq]

Originally Posted by darcangelo

And how about the Evo VIII VS Murcielago on a track... black on white on the power lap times:
Murcielago - 1.23.7
Evo VIII - 1.24.8
... that is 1.1 seconds SLOWER, right? Of course, JC just focused on how it did compared to the the 340BHP version but NOT on how it did compared to the Lambo even though the initial point was to compare them!! I even bet that the British touring champion spinning out of control was planned in advance too.

I have no doubt in the fact that the Lambo is quicker around the track, but I don't think JC was that much biased on this one. The Stig ran the Murc on an extremely dry track on a warm sunny day (good for tire traction), while the Evo was tested on a very greasy track on a very humid day (bad for turbocharged power). Both would have affected the result big time.


On a side note, am I the only one here who thinks the Stig did a rather bad job on that greasy track? I'm not even sure if it was really him. In the SLK vs Boxster contest, he ran the first corner too wide in the Boxster (the video doesn't show but you can see he was off the line), then he missed the ideal apex in the last corner, got both cars onto the bump which sent them way too wide on the way out. Then in the Evo, he managed to get the car off boost and yet again missed last corner's apex, this time too far away from it. Maybe the Stig called in sick that day and they had to find a replacement?

[cialowicz]

Originally Posted by qube

Not true, V8's rev so low that under normal driving they're fine.

My car has a 5.7l V8 and at 2500RPM does 100 MPH (red line is 5000).

On a cruise it does over 30MPG which is OK, round town it drops to about 21 and if you spank it it drops to about 10!

I get better milage than my mates 300ZX and have a similar power output.

Not bad for a 16 year old car that weighs 1.75 tons!

If you compared the Evo to the Corvette or Monaro I'd be surprised if the V8 was more thirsty.

Matthew

I'd have to agree with this. I only get about 23 mpg cruising, and I have a 280 hp turbocharged car. That Camaro probably has about the same HP and gets better cruising economy. However, much of that is probably gearing. In top gear at 100 mph I'm at 3800 rpms. My redline's at 7200.

Around town I get about 17 mpg, and at the track usually get around 5-6 mpg. That'll all change with new injectors and a bigger turbo.

But anyways... the point is that Turbocharged cars don't get better fuel economy. In the real world the fuel economy is probably worse. In theory it could be the same with proper tuning and such.

-Mike

[chonkyfire]

On a side note, am I the only one here who thinks the Stig did a rather bad job on that greasy track? I'm not even sure if it was really him. In the SLK vs Boxster contest, he ran the first corner too wide in the Boxster (the video doesn't show but you can see he was off the line), then he missed the ideal apex in the last corner, got both cars onto the bump which sent them way too wide on the way out. Then in the Evo, he managed to get the car off boost and yet again missed last corner's apex, this time too far away from it. Maybe the Stig called in sick that day and they had to find a replacement?

I think that they just make it dramatic for the show. They like to have stiggy sliding around so it gives them something to talk about. The lap they show is probably a complelation of clips that they think are the most interesting. I really don't put much faith in the lap times, I just like to see how the car handles a race track. The hammerhead doesn't lie =)[/quote]

[mike_tseng]

dropping off boost isnt a rare thing, its a huge turbo on a tiny engine, youve got to be on the upper rev range to get the most out of the turbo

ther boxter would have won but i didnt think by such a big difference...

[enzojr]

Originally Posted by chonkyfire

I think that they just make it dramatic for the show. They like to have stiggy sliding around so it gives them something to talk about. The lap they show is probably a complelation of clips that they think are the most interesting. I really don't put much faith in the lap times, I just like to see how the car handles a race track. The hammerhead doesn't lie =)

[/quote]

Haha, those are some good points. I noticed the Boxster running wide on the first corner too. I'm surprised how they just cut it out...I want to see more of the new Boxster! Seriously, I doubt the Boxster understeers, so that must have been simply poor car control. As for the Evo, if he lost boost in the middle of a corner, why not do another lap? I'm sure if you wanted to, you could maintain the engine at 6000rpm at the point where you lost the turbo in a previous lap. Same for the Boxster...do another lap.

Yeah, I think it might have not been the usual Stig doing the laps in this episode. Although the Boxster was fast, I'm still pissed that it wasn't tested properly and on a dry track.

[Zuhaib]

I think this was a pretty good ep's.
About the Stang, i went to see one not too long ago at my local Ford Dealer. And before i could even get to tear in to the car, i was already had a bad feeling from the dealer. I am sorry, not to sound aragont, but i drove up in a Jaguar S-Type (he saw me drive up as he walked to the car) and yet he treated me like a totally kid around the car. Dude, i drive a 50k car, i can take care of your 20k one. That and when i made a comment about the live axle he seemed confused and said "you dont think sport cars should be RWD?"?
Anywho, oh to why Ford went with the Live Axle, the only reason i can think is because they wanted to keep the GT from stealing SVT owners. Its for sure SVT will be a IRS rear, and the cost will also go up (500hp maybe =D), so ford does not want the GT to step on the SVT feets. Also, from the reviews the Live Rear does it job well, for what it is. So i guess its ok.
But one car that blew me out of the water was the Caddy CTS-V! First thing, the sales men there reminded me a little more like a BMW/Jag sales me. More towards making the customer feel good and knows a lot about the cars he is selling. I really want to see TG take a 2nd look at the CTS-V, bc with the Vette engine in there its a 4 door, V8 putting a crazy amount of tq.. Almost as much as the new M5 V10. But what i loved about the car is how it drove, very level, clutch felts heavy but for me i liked it, shifts where slick. And the brakes, wow do they stop. We got that car to 80 like there was no problem. And the inside kit is bang up for an American car.. Really, it does not try to be Euro, but better. I loved this car, i migth soon just trade in the Jag and pay the diff and go for an CTS-V. I loved it.

[maq]

Originally Posted by mike_tseng

dropping off boost isnt a rare thing, its a huge turbo on a tiny engine, youve got to be on the upper rev range to get the most out of the turbo

That's right, but my question is how could the Stig not manage to keep the revs high enough? During the lap, it just seemed to me he didn't got the right gear before the car understeered. Then the unexpected understeer killed the speed as well as revs, but he either didn't bother or forgot to downshift. The car literally sounded like it was doine 2000rpm on the way out

[Daniel]

The thread of long posts. The Murcielago is faster than the EVO 400FQ, done.

[Overheat]

My sentiments exactly

[RiCh]

Hey thanks for this.
I missed last weeks episode, because i was out and forgot that it started at the early time. lol
When i got in and turned on the TV, Clarkson said hello to anyone who has just tuned in,
I was looking for this episode and found this site.
Im a big fan of Top Gear and 5th Gear, and just want to say that this is a great site, keep up the great work.

8)

[Captain Morgan]

Need a few more people to re-seed this file, thanks!

[Captain Morgan]

Someone (or more than one?) out there must have re-seeded this, because it's starting to pick up the pace. Thanks! I'll keep it open overnight after it finishes.

[TechZ]

Hello all, the names TechZ, new to this forum, but been getting all my eps from this wonderful site. And have been uploading upto 600% per episode, well from University anyway, but today I got my own ADSL home account and since we have been having probs with Uni Internet, I wanted to get the new Dec eps using ABC 2.6.9. its soooooo slow, says there are only a few sources and even with Shareaza client it has trouble downloading it! Why arent ppl uploading anymore!

Thanks for all the great rips btw.