The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly discussion thread

[AnGuRuSO]

It was a pretty poor video.

[AnGuRuSO]

How would Google allow the whole video to be uploaded?

google has balls of steel

[pepitko]

I think it is not the point of this Clarkson's DVD to be factually correct and to be a journalistic review/comparison of the cars, I believe he wanted to make it more entertaining, more mass-oriented. And I think it has worked well in this matter. The dvd delivers on the entertaining bit. It's funny, and I understand that some jokes are recycled and pointed at americans, but he actually gives americans credit.. "they are able to do amazing stuff."
Although I must say that the off-road race was the weirdest of the bunch. Because the movie did not show which car was going in which direction when suddenly Escalade got stuck, which he did not show how and H2 got broken... it must have been filmed on several takes, because notice that JC gets stuck in the Land Rover and the car is reeeeaaally dirty and dusty and when he finishes the races the car is much much cleaner..

[Marquise]

Oh, I know what all 3 are capable of. But it was most certainly staged, just like all the other races ... That whole segment was a joke, which fit right in with all the other segments.

OK, I got bored through this film, I don't think at all it was one of the best, but attacking the 4x4 review? This I don't get. I thought this was actually one of the more impartial reviews that was done. Especially when compared to the atom piece.

Admittedly, Clarkson has a general anathema to Hummers (he has this rant about how the ones being built now are just GMC Tahoes in drag and listening you begin to understand why) but the test itself was fair enough. It was three 4x4s, all of which are driven onroad for image reasons.

Range Rover against an Escalade and H2. Please. While I don't doubt that the Rover will climb the hill better than the other two, I am still not clear on what happened to the H2... and the driver of the Escalade was clearly inept.

Oh, please. The Range Rover was being driven by a 46-going-on-60 year old who's in need of a hip replacement and has a notoriously bad back - not so great for paying attention in the bumps.

The driver of the Escalade couldn't have been worse. That's hardly a reason to challenge the fairness of the test.

[nomix]

The test was rigged. Clarkson loves the H2. He hates the Cadillac Marmalade for good reason (it's driven by idiots in UGLY caps, wearing baseball jerseys even though they've never played it, with solid gold teeth playing a song where some other similar man wants to beat up his woman. That, and it's rubbish.), and to be honest, even if it wasn't rigged, both the Tahoe and the Marmalade would lose.

[Marquise]

The test was rigged. Clarkson loves the H2. He hates the Cadillac Marmalade for good reason (it's driven by idiots in UGLY caps, wearing baseball jerseys even though they've never played it, with solid gold teeth playing a song where some other similar man wants to beat up his woman. That, and it's rubbish.), and to be honest, even if it wasn't rigged, both the Tahoe and the Marmalade would lose.

What? Clarkson hates the H2. Calls it a "terrible car". That's in the same rant where he points out it's a GMC in drag...

As for the test being rigged... Aside from choosing those cars to go up against the clearly better RR, I really don't think it was. Clarkson runs into some terrain which in a lesser car would have gotten him into trouble, but which he gets out of relying on the RR's sheer brilliance. Something drivers of the same standard wouldn't have been able to do in the H2 or the Marmalade.

Therefore... it's a test of the car. The other two failed. No rigging.

I think there are serious issues with this DVD (the atom review?) but this really isn't one of them. These cars are competitors in the "real world". Why not throw them some meat and see what they make of it?

[Narcolepsy]

haven't seen this thread in a while....

I think the off road test was feasable - but the US has MUCH better off-road offerings than Escalades.

[TomCat]

OK, I got bored through this film, I don't think at all it was one of the best, but attacking the 4x4 review? This I don't get. I thought this was actually one of the more impartial reviews that was done. Especially when compared to the atom piece.

I think it was rigged because there was no real order to it. They all just drove off into the desert. The Escalade tried to climb a cliff and buried itself (driver error) and the Hummer H2 was parked on a hill, without explanation. I'm sure the RR would still win, even in a fair race, but it still would have been nice to see one.

[nomix]

What? Clarkson hates the H2. Calls it a "terrible car". That's in the same rant where he points out it's a GMC in drag...

First time he drove it back in, erm, series 1, he loved it. For det road.

It's horrid for off road. Just horrid.

[Marquise]

I think it was rigged because there was no real order to it. They all just drove off into the desert. The Escalade tried to climb a cliff and buried itself (driver error) and the Hummer H2 was parked on a hill, without explanation. I'm sure the RR would still win, even in a fair race, but it still would have been nice to see one.

Yeah, but as I pointed out above, the RR was being driven by a guy with a broken back and a dicky hip who *also* got into trouble... but because the RR is just a great car, he got out of it. I don't think that driver error is a good enough reason, especially considering that they're probably (at least) semi professional drivers/stuntmen employed to drive the cars.

I agree that better parameters would have made it more a more satisfying review, but ultimately, I just don't think that the charge of "rigging" or "unfairness" is warranted in this particular case.


Nomix - Yeah, I think I'm thinking of his rant about how the Tahoe is "notable for being the only 4x4 that doesn't go anywhere." He's talking about an off-road review, it may have even been during the press for TGTB&TU. I'll rack my brain some more.

[superchevy]

the mustang segment has already been properly addressed.

yes, the escalade is a 4x4 suv. however, it is not an off-road vehicle. nothing about it was intended to be used off-road. that's why it made zero sense to use it in an off-road comparison. as for the hummer h2, anyone who knows anything about off-roading knows the h2 is a piece of shit regardless of whatever gm's press kit says. the internet was flooded with hilarious stories and photos of how inept the h2 was at off-roading immediately after it was released. it's for soccer moms and people who can't afford an h1. eventhough the range rover is a luxury vehicle, it was engineered to be a principle off-road vehicle. if you're going to do an offroad vehicle comparison, why not use american vehicles that were engineered to be proper off-road vehicles? the only suv engineered by a major automaker for off-roading is jeep's grand cherokee. all the other suv's are primarily intended for transporting people and things. the primary off-roading vehicles in the united states are the trucks. that's just how it is over here.

and speaking of trucks, how the fuck is a dodge ram 1500 srt8 vs an ariel atom a sensible comparison? are you kidding me?!?! a damn truck isn't intended for driving around a race track. they're used to haul/pull stuff. i couldn't even begin to guess how much money i've saved by borrowing my friends' trucks to when moving. trucks have leaf springs because leaf spring>coil springs for hauling things. leaf springs also locate the axle without the need for multi-link suspensions. and as for low hp ratings, torque is where it's at when evaluating a truck's effectiveness. durrr!

300c vs. m5? again, what the fuck? he reviews the 300c on a road course. do i really need to say this again? it's not a damn track car. then, he has them in a drag race. again, stupid, but he could've atleast used the 300c hemi.

clarkson even puts american drivers down for being civil and heeding the right-of-way at an intersection.

and why does clarkson, and other europeans, continually complain about the heavy clutches and shifting in some of our cars? how whimpy must you be? i've never had a problem, and i definitely prefer the stoutness of american transmissions.

europeans keep trying to make american cars into something they were never intended (engineered) to be. we don't want/need wood and metal dashboards in all of our cars. we don't want/need all of our sedans to handle well on a road course, even if they have 400 hp. most our suv's are not off-roaders in any sense, not even the h2 and h3. the leaf springs in a corvette aren't the same kind of leaf springs in trucks. and how bad can it really be when the c6 z06 laps the 'ring in 7:42.9?

quit being a bitch with the comparisons, clarkson! he should've compared the following (even if some of the american competitors still cost $30,000 less):
luxury sports sedan: bmw m5 vs. cadillac cts-v
small, track-car maker: lotus elise vs. panoz esperante
luxury off-roading suv: land rover range rover vs. jeep commander
engine and exhaust noise: completely subjective and pointless to argue.
glorified go-kart: ariel atom vs. ???

[TomCat]

Yeah, but as I pointed out above, the RR was being driven by a guy with a broken back and a dicky hip who *also* got into trouble... but because the RR is just a great car, he got out of it. I don't think that driver error is a good enough reason, especially considering that they're probably (at least) semi professional drivers/stuntmen employed to drive the cars.

I agree that better parameters would have made it more a more satisfying review, but ultimately, I just don't think that the charge of "rigging" or "unfairness" is warranted in this particular case.

The Escalade driver was nothing short of a moron. Had the RR tried to climb the same hill that stuck the Cadillac, the RR would be buried right next to it. I've seen better driving skills in 10th grade Driver's Ed. It doesn't really matter what physical condition Clarkson was/is in. He knows how to sit on his ass and turn a steering wheel. The test itself was a joke. It seemed like he told the other 2 drivers to go get stuck in the desert, then Clarkson would drive up the nice little dirt road to the top of the hill and win.

We do a lot of off-roading here in Arizona. We've done more serious trails in 2WD. But I honestly can't take anything substantial from this test. It didn't really prove anything, except that an Escalade with 20" rims and low profile tires can't climb cliffs, and a Hummer H2 that won't work... uhh... won't work. Kinda pointless really.

It's like watching a race between a Mustang GT, BMW M3, and a Porsche 911 Turbo. Only the M3 won't start, the 911 went off the track on turn 1 and got stuck in some mud, and then proclaiming the Mustang GT the fastest and best car of the group.

[nomix]

a damn truck isn't intended for driving around a race track.

But there's no denying that the SRT-10 actually drives very well, especially going sideways.

And I'll tell you, when it goes off, everybody F*CKING MOVES!

I do love it.

And I agree it wasn't a fair comparison. But it's just entertainment.

[TopGearUSA]

Random thoughts...
Dear Jeremy has the same problem as Steven Spielberg. Both are successful geniuses who don't know how to edit themselves. Spielberg's recent films are all too long by half and Jeremy continues to make a pile of money recycling the same old jokes. As sloppy as “The Good, Bad…” is, it remains somewhat amusing even to me… one of the dreaded Americans.

As to why American cars are what they are … well … we pay half of what you in the UK pay for them in the first place. I know this isn’t news but, a Z06 Corvette can be had here for about 35,000 pounds, a 300 HP Mustang GT for 12,000 plus maybe 11% tax and license here in California. Gas costs about a third of what you’re paying. We love torque, have relatively low speed limits, spend hours a day in our cars eating and talking on the phone and those of us who enjoy handling have to seek out mountain roads or local track days to enjoy it. The only place I normally get to exercise my M3 is at freeway on and off ramps.

We do make some very fine American cars but strangely they have badges that say Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes on them. Most are bolted together right here in the US of A by ‘mericans. We also import some high end American cars like Aston, and Range Rover. Whoops… those used to belong to you guys back when you guys had an automotive industry.
And yes, the American auto industry is going down the tubes following the business model of British Leyland just as the US is doing it’s best to imitate the collapse of the British Empire. But for now we should all rejoice in the final throws of the petroleum age and enjoy.

As for why Top Gear isn’t made in the US or appears on US TV in UK form here, one simple answer (and believe me I know)… advertising. Car companies are some of the largest buyers of TV ad time. TG, as we know it, can only really exist in the protected greenhouse of the BBC. Like Russian ballet and East German female shot putters a few things do flourish under socialism.

[scoops]

The Escalade driver was nothing short of a moron. Had the RR tried to climb the same hill that stuck the Cadillac, the RR would be buried right next to it. I've seen better driving skills in 10th grade Driver's Ed. It doesn't really matter what physical condition Clarkson was/is in. He knows how to sit on his ass and turn a steering wheel. The test itself was a joke. It seemed like he told the other 2 drivers to go get stuck in the desert, then Clarkson would drive up the nice little dirt road to the top of the hill and win.

We do a lot of off-roading here in Arizona. We've done more serious trails in 2WD. But I honestly can't take anything substantial from this test. It didn't really prove anything, except that an Escalade with 20" rims and low profile tires can't climb cliffs, and a Hummer H2 that won't work... uhh... won't work. Kinda pointless really.

It's like watching a race between a Mustang GT, BMW M3, and a Porsche 911 Turbo. Only the M3 won't start, the 911 went off the track on turn 1 and got stuck in some mud, and then proclaiming the Mustang GT the fastest and best car of the group.

the sad thing is that hill wasn't even hard...... there isn't really much excuse for the caddy and the H2 to have not made it up it along side the RR other then the fact someone told them to intentionally try to get them stuck..... there's no way in hell it wasn't staged, I bet the H2 guy couldn't find somewhere to get it stuck so it put it at max redline in low range and blew something up just so it wouldn't make it up.

and yes, the caddy could have made it up the hill 20" rims and all, that was just a farce. ( i don't care how shitty it is, that course was not challenging and it could have probably been done in the Atom)

[AMDB5Fan]

Over the end credits of this DVD, a blues-like track is heard as JC drives off into the sunset in the Ford GT X1, can anyone please tell me what it's called, and even better where I could download it from?

[wlmmn]

I couldn't stand the weird way he pronounced Escalade.

[Frederic]

I couldn't stand the weird way he pronounced Escalade.

[offtopic]I can't stand the way you Americans pronounce every word[/offtopic]

[wlmmn]

[offtopic]I can't stand the way you Americans pronounce every word[/offtopic]

Oh please. He was in America, talking about an American car. What's with the childish defense? I could resort to making some blanket statement about how I "can't stand the way you Brits pronounce every word" but I won't. What about when Clarkson was reviewing the Corvette Z06 and pronounced it "zed-oh-six" instead of "zee-oh-six"? And then "you Brits" make fun of how Jay Leno pronounces Jaguar even though he's in America, in his own garage, with his own car?

[MattD1zzl3]

Shh, anti american bias knows no logic. Dont confound them with facts and sense.