Clarkson on the Cadillac CTS-V: "You'd be mad to buy anything else"

[ado]

Originally Posted by Viper007Bond

Reading is fundamental.

You still didn't answer his question.

[Tadite]

Originally Posted by Rokovak

Dammit, how could GM go bankrupt with amazing cars like this?

Decades of bad choices and worse cars....

[racingfan1]

Originally Posted by ado

You still didn't answer his question.

How did he not? The answer was in the next quote.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally Posted by racingfan1

How did he not? The answer was in the next quote.

No, the quote told us what other car the interior designers had done, not who they were.

[Redliner]

labcoatguy, your final comment suited it perfectly!

[2Billion]

Originally Posted by Rokovak

Dammit, how could GM go bankrupt with amazing cars like this?

See: GM range, circa 2005. Yes this car is amazing, now that the engineers have shot the short-sighted accountants in the foot and are being allowed to make cars as good as they possibly can. Before that, though, you'd have stuff like the old Malibu, which was sort of like clinical depression turned into a car.

Luckily it does seem to be working, since the new Malibu apparently had sales 85% greater than the old one in the first year of production, IIRC.

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by Rokovak

Dammit, how could GM go bankrupt with amazing cars like this?

Because most of the rest of their lineup is shit? Like, oh, the Aveo? The Impala? The Ion? And while their design and initial quality is either there or getting there, they haven't fired all the lazy union workers that cause their quality problems in the first place. And their customer service is still sub-par.

Originally Posted by Lupin_IV

Because too many people just ignore GM when buying a new car and end up getting a Honda or Toyota that gives them less for their money.

Originally Posted by smitman556678

Because in the 90s, GM was making absolute sh*t! Nowadays, GM has improved with cars like the CTS and others. Infact, I'm not certain but I think the new Chevy Malibu is the Vauxhall Insignia's twin.

Originally Posted by Tadite

Decades of bad choices and worse cars....

The last two are the real reasons, the first one is not.

GM spent THIRTY YEARS screwing their customers, visibly, publicly, proudly. Now, all of a sudden, they expect the buying public to give them yet *another* chance? When it's obvious that little has changed? When they haven't apologized for the shit they used to sell and in some cases continue to sell to this day?

Not. Going. To. Happen.

They played the "where ya gonna go" game with the customers, and when an alternative presented itself, guess what? The customers left. And they aren't coming back - especially since despite the improved initial quality, GM's customer service continues to be uniformly poor, and everyone knows it.

At least when someone buys a Honda Accord or Toyota Camry, they are reasonably sure that some UAW member hasn't improperly assembled the car, deliberately vandalized it, or left body fluids somewhere in it.

You cannot be sure of that with a GM product.

[logifuse]

Originally Posted by Rokovak

Dammit, how could GM go bankrupt with amazing cars like this?

If my understanding is correct, the Cadillac CTS-V & the Commodore are essentially the same size, yet are built on 2 different platforms - that's one way to lose money.

[the Interceptor]

Originally Posted by the Interceptor

Me really likey teh CTS-V as well, definitely the best car to come out of the USA in the last years beside the Vette.

Someone neg-repped me for the above comment, saying "Crapette leafsprings!!!!".

[mazdaddy]

Originally Posted by Spectre

Because most of the rest of their lineup is shit? Like, oh, the Aveo? The Impala? The Ion? ...

You cannot be sure of that with a GM product.

What about Holden's/Vauxhalls/Opels? Do they really get on the same fail rail? I recently had a Commodore Calais hirecar, it wasnt too bad, apart from a gap in the boot lining which harbored some sort of insect family, which is quite common in Queensland apparently, and then they got into the cabin.

[NooDle]

AFAIK Opel/Vauxhall do make quite reliable cars, and are not seen as crapmobiles. They're not seen as beacons of build quality either, rather "good enough for the pricetag"

Also, I like Clarksons reasoning in this article : buy a car that's just as quick as an M5 and save a whole hunk of cash to buy fuel with

[Mineworksfine]

Originally Posted by NooDle

AFAIK Opel/Vauxhall do make quite reliable cars, and are not seen as crapmobiles. They're not seen as beacons of build quality either, rather "good enough for the pricetag"

I think it's that there is a different perception of Opels in continental Europe compared to Vauxhall here in the UK. They are viewed as a bit of a low-rent option or a default choice by people who have no interest in cars and simply choose them they same way they would choose any other domestic appliance. Ford realised a few years ago that the blue oval was no longer enough to guarantee market share as it had done for so many years so it started building cars that drove well and that sold because of how good they were. Vauxhall (Opel) took a lot longer to realise the same thing and are still some way off the mark after years of ignoring previously loyal customers voting with their feet. Hence the reason why I might consider a Ford but would still opt for public transport over having a Vauxhall on my driveway.

[NooDle]

Originally Posted by Mineworksfine

Hence the reason why I might consider a Ford but would still opt for public transport over having a Vauxhall on my driveway.

Well, your loss. I know I am biased because I have one, but Opels really arent that bad as Clarkson & co make them seem to be. Yeah they're not the most exciting cars you can buy, and true, VW and Ford do make better handling ones for a bit more money.

But at the end of the day, how much % of your time will you be able to use all of that engineering brilliance? 1% 2%?

that's why I chose to pocket the extra money and buy me a nice opel.

I think the largest problem Opel/Vauxhall had was that people who drove them were either old or stupidly boring. They solved that IMO with the new look of the Astra, as they scared the old farts away.
I still don't like the look of it, but it is atleast a bit more modern. And you would not believe how well made the new ones are, they make my car look like it was made in the early 80s

[Spectre]

Originally Posted by mazdaddy

What about Holden's/Vauxhalls/Opels? Do they really get on the same fail rail? I recently had a Commodore Calais hirecar, it wasnt too bad, apart from a gap in the boot lining which harbored some sort of insect family, which is quite common in Queensland apparently, and then they got into the cabin.

Unknown. The few Holdens that have come over here so far have been far above the usual GM par for the course. Friend of mine has an 04 GTO that's holding up well, despite his abuse of it.

I'd base my opinion of the Opels/Vauxhalls on what the Europeans report, except for the fact that as we've found out, a car that holds up well in Europe doesn't necessarily hold up well in the US - even when they come from the same plant in the same country. VAG, I'm looking at you.

[edkwon]

Originally Posted by Rokovak

Dammit, how could GM go bankrupt with amazing cars like this?

Because that's a car that a small fraction of GM customers will actually buy or spend the money on, the vast majority of their high volume cars sold to everyday ppl are still crap (i'm referring to the US cars of course, not the european Opels or Australian Holdens)

[Crazyjeeper]

I love the new CTS-V. It looks simply awesome in person and I'm glad that clarkson saw through the americanness enough to realize how good it actually is.

This weekend, I got to sit in a new Saturn Astra and I have to say it is a step in the right direction for GM. I just hope its not too little too late.

[Spectre]

I think this bears reposting, from last year.


I'm going to post a letter a friend of mine sent to AutoExtremist about a month ago. This is coming from someone who bought a C5 new off the floor at the time and owns an 03 Mustang Cobra (with the IRS).

Originally Posted by merp

As much as I'd like to agree with your perception of the Saturn Aura and as much as GM desperately needs a hit, I just can't take seriously a vehicle whose interior designers decided to resurrect what's got to be one of the worst GM missteps ever, molded-in stitching.

It's everywhere in the new cars. On the armrests. On the door paneling. On the dashboard, can you believe it! I can't, and anyone who remembers the terrible GM interiors of the early 80s certainly doesn't want to return to that place. I know I don't, and any aspect of GM interior styling that harkens to the Dark Days makes my stomach turn. It's much improved, and I was almost fooled. In fact, at first glance I did think it was real stitching, and got excited, thinking "could it be that GM finally figured it out?" Of course, the answer is no, and I was surprisingly quite let down when I saw that, because I just knew that there was no hope for quality in that vehicle.

This is the perception gap that GM completely and utterly fails to grasp. Lutz seems to get it, saying they need to put a $50K-class interior into the $35K-class cars. Well, if it weren't for the fact that everybody else's $35K-class interior is GM's "$50K-class interior," GM wouldn't be in the situation they are now. At this point, they can't afford to look the least bit cheap, no matter what, and the molded stitching is cheap. Sure it'll last, but in my mind (and in the minds of lots of others) it speaks to a culture of faking quality rather than making quality.

The interior must be three things. It must not feel cheap, any of the parts the driver can touch. Anything he can see has to look nice, and anything that can only be seen and not generally felt can be cheap so long as it looks good and doesn't squeak or rattle. And anything that can't be seen or felt, who cares? But GM won't learn this lesson. The new cars are an improvement, but all that's happened is that GM's caught up to where the competition was five years ago. It's disgusting, especially when a five hundred dollar improvement to the interior would work wonders for perceived quality, that things should continue the way they are.

[Redliner]

molded-in stitching? Damn...