Constructive criticism: Attention Andy Wilman

Mishal · March 6th, 2007, 02:38 AM

I sincerely do not want to sound like I am gloating but I am one of the relatively few viewers of Top Gear existing today who started watching it in early 1990s.

The reason I am mentioning this is because the modern-day Top Gear has two separate audiences:
1) the original TG fans who are genuine petrol-heads
2) people who love entertainment in general and found the new reality-TVesque Top Gear very appealing to their taste.

I, by no means, am looking down on the people who falls in the second category. In fact, it makes me happy that Top Gear is so overwhelmingly popular that even non-car enthusiasts are addicted to it.

However, and this is strictly my opinion, in an attempt to cater to the taste of the increasingly big second category, Top Gear (especially the 9th season) has almost entirely lost its original value as a show that reviews cars.

I believe not many will argue that the number of car reviews per show has decreased significantly in recent seasons. And on the other hand, the number of reality-TV based 'adventures' of paving roads or making stretch limos, cutting up cars or what not has become the dominant segment of the show.

Before someone attacks my argument, I would like to put up this disclaimer - these adventures by themselves are extremely enjoyable. In fact, my stomach was hurting as I laughed so much when Jeremy failed to turn his stretched Panda around that slalom course.

But my original argument remains - Top Gear was primarily meant to be a show for reviewing cars. If these funny segments are added on as icing on the cake, its fantastic. But if these are used to replace car reviews and becomes the dominant themes of each episode, then Top Gear will be losing its value as a car show and will become just another (albeit the best) comedy series.

I have seen lots of people complain about little issues of Top Gear - what's the need for Top Gear Dog?; the review of car X was too long; the joke on issue Y was politically wrong or what not.

But I am not too worried about the micro aspects of the show. Almost nothing is perfect in this world and what the guys at BBC have so far made is, in my opinion, the best TV show in history.

If you are indeed reading this (and I am badly hoping that you are), Mr Wilman, please do take into consideration what I have said here.

In the end, even if Top Gear keeps on evolving into nothing but a comedy series which 'mentions' cars every now and then, I will still watch it. But unfortunately, my reason for watching it will no longer be cars, just comedy.

Mishal images/smilies/smile.gif

ArcherV20 · March 6th, 2007, 03:05 AM

Well put,

I find the exact same thing happening, and frankly it dissapoints me. Although you may feel that you can still continue to watch the show into the many years it will be on with it's current "state". My interest is slowly tapering off, too many gimmicks, and it is definatly more of a comedy show now.

I watched TG for car reviews, the news, and every once and *awhile* a special with some sort of challenge or something. That's what I miss, also what happened to the races between Richard, James, and Jeremy?

Hopefully next season brings me some cheer.

maxorido · March 6th, 2007, 03:25 AM

Good post. I was actually skipping through the whole limo segment in the most recent episode, I watch the show for the cars.

Clown · March 6th, 2007, 03:42 AM

Well put Mishal.

As I said in another thread I don't want to sound like the pillocks around here that bitch if TopGear does something, then bitch when they don't, but I was really disappointed when I was watching 09x06 and looked at the timer after SRPC and realized that there was no way they could fit in another car review with finale of the limo film remaining.

On the other hand, I'll go back to a few weeks ago when I was over a mates place watching 09x04 and we both sat there, mouths wide open watching the Robin being launched. I pretty much just sat there saying "holy shit..... holy shit....... holy shit..." over and over. I couldn't believe it worked. It was one of the most amazing things I've ever watched. Afterwards my mate said to me he now knows how people in the 60's felt watching NASA blasting people into space for the first time. He meant it too.

Its really all about balance, I sure as hell don't want the show to be all reviews (*cough*5thgear*cough*cupholders*cough*) ; But nor do I want it to be all cocking about.
Its always been TopGear's combination of the two that has made the show so special......

AnGuRuSO · March 6th, 2007, 03:54 AM

What do you suggest Top Gear does to keep both groups happy?

Redliner · March 6th, 2007, 04:57 AM

A better balancing between reviews and goofing around. The last episode had ONE review....and a short and bad one.

Ghostwolf · March 6th, 2007, 06:29 AM

Totally agreed, and beside this "how hard could it be" idea is getting out of control,
and it's getting old really fast.

ahpadt · March 6th, 2007, 07:14 AM

Quoting myself here from another post:

Quote:

Cars they tested in series 9:

Jaguar XKR
Audi TT
Alfa Romeo Brera
Mazda RX-8
Porsche 911 Turbo
MB SL65 Brabus
Lambo LP604
Ford Mustang

Total amount of cars in the last season:

Nissan Micra Conv.
Honda Civic
Koeningsegg CCX
Corvette Z06
Jaguar XK
Lotus Exige S
Porsche Boxster S
BMW Z4M
MB S-class
Porsche Cayenne Turbo S
Prodrive P2
Citroen C6
Ford Mondeo ST220
Mazda 6 MPS
Vauxhall Vectra VXR
Ford S-Max
Vauxhall Zafira
MB B-class
Lambo Gallardo Spyder
Peugeot 207
Noble
Vans..

HSV GTS · March 6th, 2007, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnGuRuSO

What do you suggest Top Gear does to keep both groups happy?

Perhaps they could make another show that would go for half an hour and they could review 3 or 4 cars (top gear style). Then they could leave the main show for SIARPC, the cool wall, the news, the "how hard could it be" segments and maybe one car review.

Maybe a little impractical, but I can dream.

Shawn · March 6th, 2007, 07:34 AM

Yeah these are all great points. I'm surprised nobody has given the "if you don't like it, don't watch it" response yet.

I would just like to add one thing. The show also seems to have become too rehearsed. New Top Gear has always been explicitly rehearsed but it's getting more and more. Take the Limo segment for instance... we didn't even see how those things were made. We saw them cut the cars up and the next scene they're driving down the track. It's obvious that the guys didn't do all this work themselves, but it doesn't have to be so obvious.

I would say series 6 had the best mix of seriousness and fun. Plus, if you keep doing a challenge every episode it won't be long before you run out of ideas and have to either revert to showing all reviews or just go off air.

Dsemaj · March 6th, 2007, 07:35 AM

Like other people have said: a better mix. I love the cocking around, but it doesn't work when it dominates the majority of the show.

@Shawn because of the nature of the challenges and the length of them, I don't think they were able to focus much more time on the building of the cars themselves.

tom_kauf · March 6th, 2007, 08:29 AM

Very, very, very well said.
I think we'll all continue to watch TG every week, and get withdrawal symptoms when it's not on air, no matter what the balance is.
But as a lover of cars, I'd like to see a bit more reviewing. Just a 1sec shot of the car's interior please......

Remember, one factor this season was Richard. I can totally understand if they wanted to go easy on Richard's first season back, and have more fun. Although we might not think reviewing cars is 'work', I'm sure it can be pretty strenuous. images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

I'm surprised nobody has given the "if you don't like it, don't watch it" response yet.

Yes, well probably because even though it has its flaws, it's still the best 'The best show in the world EVER'. It's just a shame that it used to be a better show when it was geared to the lovers of cars and a bit more technical (group 1).

bobflyer · March 6th, 2007, 08:34 AM

I feel they got the right mix in season 7. A lot of the the humor is also in the car reviews. They don't have to go about cocking every single episode doing these stunts and build-offs. I loved the show the most when Jeremy gives his funny comments about cars during the reviews.

freeflydodger · March 6th, 2007, 08:54 AM

Well, if they stretch not the Limos, but the show to let´s say 2 hours, then they´d have enough time for more car reviews ! This way, TG could still show the comedy segments like in this Season !

Just joking. I also agree to what is written at the top. More cars, less explosions.

upyourego · March 6th, 2007, 08:58 AM

OK now it's time for another point of view.

Television shows evolve over time, they move to meet the needs of their audience and the changing tastes of the audience.

Top Gear is a British show for a British audience and that British audience seems to REALLY appreciate the new format of the show. Just look at the ratings, AI figures and reaction from people down the pub images/smilies/smile.gif

The world has changed a LOT in the last few decades and now there are lots of different places you can get car reviews including the topgear.com website. In fact you can get car reviews from the presenters themselves by visiting the website of the newspaper they write for.

As the budget for topgear.com increases I expect you'll start to see a lot more video based car reviews as well so you'll get your reviews there.

The audience wanting the challenges and messing about is getting to a point where it is higher than the 'car' fans so the needs of that greater number needs to be considered first.

AnGuRuSO · March 6th, 2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upyourego

OK now it's time for another point of view.

Television shows evolve over time, they move to meet the needs of their audience and the changing tastes of the audience.

Top Gear is a British show for a British audience and that British audience seems to REALLY appreciate the new format of the show. Just look at the ratings, AI figures and reaction from people down the pub images/smilies/smile.gif

The world has changed a LOT in the last few decades and now there are lots of different places you can get car reviews including the topgear.com website. In fact you can get car reviews from the presenters themselves by visiting the website of the newspaper they write for.

The audience wanting the challenges and messing about is getting to a point where it is higher than the 'car' fans so the needs of that greater number needs to be considered first.

So what do you want these guys who don't like the current style to do? Shut up? They're just expressing their point of view.

Top Gear is not just for a British audience. Networks all over the world purchase it from the BBC. It's ignorant to only worry about the British audience.

Shawn · March 6th, 2007, 09:29 AM

Wait, what non-BBC network shows Top Gear? I should move.

Adunaphel · March 6th, 2007, 09:31 AM

Veronica in The Netherlands broadcasts them a season late (with really really bad subtitles, clearly done by someone who knows dick shit about cars)

AnGuRuSO · March 6th, 2007, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn

Wait, what non-BBC network shows Top Gear? I should move.

SBS in Australia buys it. You can also watch it on BBC World which is available pretty much everywhere except China. The BBC pissed them off a few years back and they've been banned.

upyourego · March 6th, 2007, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnGuRuSO

So what do you want these guys who don't like the current style to do? Shut up? They're just expressing their point of view.

Top Gear is not just for a British audience. Networks all over the world purchase it from the BBC. It's ignorant to only worry about the British audience.

Sort of true but if the show doesn't do well in the UK then it won't get made - simple as that. First and foremost it is MADE for a British audience and paid for with the Licence Fee which is in turn paid for by the people of Britain.

So as long as the ratings are good HERE in Britain then the show will be sticking to the format that worked so well this series.

If another broadcaster in another country buys the show they buy the show as made for the British audience. If the show gets bad ratings in that country they stop buying the show ... and thats it.

If people in Britain stop watching the show then you can say goodbye to Top Gear.

March 6th, 2007, 02:38 AM	#1
Mishal Joined: Jan 3rd, 2005 Last Online: November 18th, 2008 Posts: 256 Rep Power: 0	Constructive criticism: Attention Andy Wilman I sincerely do not want to sound like I am gloating but I am one of the relatively few viewers of Top Gear existing today who started watching it in early 1990s. The reason I am mentioning this is because the modern-day Top Gear has two separate audiences: 1) the original TG fans who are genuine petrol-heads 2) people who love entertainment in general and found the new reality-TVesque Top Gear very appealing to their taste. I, by no means, am looking down on the people who falls in the second category. In fact, it makes me happy that Top Gear is so overwhelmingly popular that even non-car enthusiasts are addicted to it. However, and this is strictly my opinion, in an attempt to cater to the taste of the increasingly big second category, Top Gear (especially the 9th season) has almost entirely lost its original value as a show that reviews cars. I believe not many will argue that the number of car reviews per show has decreased significantly in recent seasons. And on the other hand, the number of reality-TV based 'adventures' of paving roads or making stretch limos, cutting up cars or what not has become the dominant segment of the show. Before someone attacks my argument, I would like to put up this disclaimer - these adventures by themselves are extremely enjoyable. In fact, my stomach was hurting as I laughed so much when Jeremy failed to turn his stretched Panda around that slalom course. But my original argument remains - Top Gear was primarily meant to be a show for reviewing cars. If these funny segments are added on as icing on the cake, its fantastic. But if these are used to replace car reviews and becomes the dominant themes of each episode, then Top Gear will be losing its value as a car show and will become just another (albeit the best) comedy series. I have seen lots of people complain about little issues of Top Gear - what's the need for Top Gear Dog?; the review of car X was too long; the joke on issue Y was politically wrong or what not. But I am not too worried about the micro aspects of the show. Almost nothing is perfect in this world and what the guys at BBC have so far made is, in my opinion, the best TV show in history. If you are indeed reading this (and I am badly hoping that you are), Mr Wilman, please do take into consideration what I have said here. In the end, even if Top Gear keeps on evolving into nothing but a comedy series which 'mentions' cars every now and then, I will still watch it. But unfortunately, my reason for watching it will no longer be cars, just comedy. Mishal

March 6th, 2007, 03:42 AM	#4
Clown Joined: Mar 31st, 2006 Last Online: November 12th, 2008 Posts: 201 Rep Power: 0	Well put Mishal. As I said in another thread I don't want to sound like the pillocks around here that bitch if TopGear does something, then bitch when they don't, but I was really disappointed when I was watching 09x06 and looked at the timer after SRPC and realized that there was no way they could fit in another car review with finale of the limo film remaining. On the other hand, I'll go back to a few weeks ago when I was over a mates place watching 09x04 and we both sat there, mouths wide open watching the Robin being launched. I pretty much just sat there saying "holy shit..... holy shit....... holy shit..." over and over. I couldn't believe it worked. It was one of the most amazing things I've ever watched. Afterwards my mate said to me he now knows how people in the 60's felt watching NASA blasting people into space for the first time. He meant it too. Its really all about balance, I sure as hell don't want the show to be all reviews (cough5thgearcoughcupholderscough) ; But nor do I want it to be all cocking about. Its always been TopGear's combination of the two that has made the show so special...... Last edited by Clown; March 6th, 2007 at 05:09 AM..

March 6th, 2007, 03:54 AM	#5
AnGuRuSO Joined: Aug 25th, 2006 Last Online: Yesterday Location: Sydney, Astraya Age: 20 Posts: 1,101 Rep Power: 12	What do you suggest Top Gear does to keep both groups happy? __________________

March 6th, 2007, 06:29 AM	#7
Ghostwolf Joined: May 29th, 2005 Last Online: October 25th, 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 74 Rep Power: 0	Totally agreed, and beside this "how hard could it be" idea is getting out of control, and it's getting old really fast. __________________

March 6th, 2007, 07:35 AM	#11
Dsemaj Previously Known As Jamesd Joined: May 3rd, 2006 Last Online: 08:08 AM Location: Adelaide, Australia. Posts: 2,032 Car: '95 BMW 530i, '85 Nissan Bluebird S3 GXE Rep Power: 26	Like other people have said: a better mix. I love the cocking around, but it doesn't work when it dominates the majority of the show. @Shawn because of the nature of the challenges and the length of them, I don't think they were able to focus much more time on the building of the cars themselves. __________________ 1995 BMW E34 530i V8 M60B30 218HP/163kW 5sp Auto 1985 Nissan 910 Bluebird I4 CA20S 105HP/78kW 3sp Auto Last edited by Dsemaj; March 6th, 2007 at 07:37 AM..

March 6th, 2007, 03:05 AM	#2
ArcherV20 Joined: Jan 16th, 2007 Last Online: May 27th, 2007 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Age: 21 Posts: 4 Car: 1995 240SX LE Rep Power: 0	Well put, I find the exact same thing happening, and frankly it dissapoints me. Although you may feel that you can still continue to watch the show into the many years it will be on with it's current "state". My interest is slowly tapering off, too many gimmicks, and it is definatly more of a comedy show now. I watched TG for car reviews, the news, and every once and awhile a special with some sort of challenge or something. That's what I miss, also what happened to the races between Richard, James, and Jeremy? Hopefully next season brings me some cheer.

March 6th, 2007, 03:25 AM	#3
maxorido Joined: Jul 24th, 2006 Last Online: November 12th, 2008 Posts: 324 Car: AP2 S2000 Rep Power: 10	Good post. I was actually skipping through the whole limo segment in the most recent episode, I watch the show for the cars.

March 6th, 2007, 04:57 AM	#6
Redliner Joined: May 19th, 2005 Last Online: November 20th, 2008 Location: Canoas, Brazil Age: 29 Posts: 3,461 Car: Fiat Palio 1.6 16v Rep Power: 37	A better balancing between reviews and goofing around. The last episode had ONE review....and a short and bad one.

March 6th, 2007, 07:34 AM	#10
Shawn FG's Highest Paid Male Whore Joined: May 26th, 2005 Last Online: 07:56 PM Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,238 Car: IS250 RWD Rep Power: 84	Yeah these are all great points. I'm surprised nobody has given the "if you don't like it, don't watch it" response yet. I would just like to add one thing. The show also seems to have become too rehearsed. New Top Gear has always been explicitly rehearsed but it's getting more and more. Take the Limo segment for instance... we didn't even see how those things were made. We saw them cut the cars up and the next scene they're driving down the track. It's obvious that the guys didn't do all this work themselves, but it doesn't have to be so obvious. I would say series 6 had the best mix of seriousness and fun. Plus, if you keep doing a challenge every episode it won't be long before you run out of ideas and have to either revert to showing all reviews or just go off air.

March 6th, 2007, 08:34 AM	#13
bobflyer Joined: Jan 14th, 2007 Last Online: 05:07 PM Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	I feel they got the right mix in season 7. A lot of the the humor is also in the car reviews. They don't have to go about cocking every single episode doing these stunts and build-offs. I loved the show the most when Jeremy gives his funny comments about cars during the reviews.

March 6th, 2007, 08:54 AM	#14
freeflydodger Joined: Dec 5th, 2005 Last Online: September 12th, 2007 Posts: 20 Rep Power: 0	Well, if they stretch not the Limos, but the show to let´s say 2 hours, then they´d have enough time for more car reviews ! This way, TG could still show the comedy segments like in this Season ! Just joking. I also agree to what is written at the top. More cars, less explosions.

March 6th, 2007, 08:58 AM	#15
upyourego VIP Joined: Nov 12th, 2006 Last Online: 12:18 PM Location: Jersey, Channel Islands, UK Age: 27 Posts: 1,037 Car: Never learnt to drive Rep Power: 33	OK now it's time for another point of view. Television shows evolve over time, they move to meet the needs of their audience and the changing tastes of the audience. Top Gear is a British show for a British audience and that British audience seems to REALLY appreciate the new format of the show. Just look at the ratings, AI figures and reaction from people down the pub The world has changed a LOT in the last few decades and now there are lots of different places you can get car reviews including the topgear.com website. In fact you can get car reviews from the presenters themselves by visiting the website of the newspaper they write for. As the budget for topgear.com increases I expect you'll start to see a lot more video based car reviews as well so you'll get your reviews there. The audience wanting the challenges and messing about is getting to a point where it is higher than the 'car' fans so the needs of that greater number needs to be considered first. __________________ --------- Ryan Morrison howtobeageek.net

March 6th, 2007, 09:29 AM	#17
Shawn FG's Highest Paid Male Whore Joined: May 26th, 2005 Last Online: 07:56 PM Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 8,238 Car: IS250 RWD Rep Power: 84	Wait, what non-BBC network shows Top Gear? I should move.

March 6th, 2007, 09:31 AM	#18
Adunaphel Global Moderator Joined: Jan 18th, 2006 Last Online: 02:49 PM Location: Eindhoven, Dutchikistan Age: 28 Posts: 3,503 Car: 1990 Mercedes-Benz 190E (W201) Rep Power: 65	Veronica in The Netherlands broadcasts them a season late (with really really bad subtitles, clearly done by someone who knows dick shit about cars) __________________ 01001001 00100000 01000001 01001101 00100000 01010100 01001000 01000101 00100000 01010011 01010100 01001001 01000111

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