Episode Encoding Discussion

[autostream]

VUK:
i am curious why you are bothering messing around with obscure Divx codecs that not everyone will have? Dont get me wrong, I prefed .avi over wmv and have all known codecs installed. But for mass downloads, WMV is the way to go.
Basically its a carbon copy of Divx but will play on EVERY computer with windows and is easier to configure efficient render options.
Of course you cant 'jump to' the timeline and its impossible to re-edit, yet, not that it matters here-you can stream it as well.

[Overheat]

perhaps you just answered your own question there autostream.

I like your avatar gaemon82 btw

[zenon]

Ya, I almost took Autostream's comment as sarcastic. I have absolutley no interest in a video format in which you can't jump along the timeline... I couldn't even imagine trying to identify song title requests without being able to do that. The formats Vuk is using are far from obscure too - all of the shows I download are DivX and XVid encoded .AVIs.


To all those making song title requests, I'm away from my computer and music collection for the next few days. I won't be able to do any song identifications for a bit, although I don't remember knowing too many of the songs used in this episode. Hopefully someone else will be able to answer a few.

[autostream]

i am very serious. Making videos has been my 'thing' for a long time. And the choice of codec is always a difficult one because it depends on so many things.
But right here, the format used, should be the best one suited for the majority of its users and not just whats best for zenon.
divx and wmv are so similar in quality and size that the biggest and most important difference is compatibility.
Everytime I go to a site where they have .avi or .mpg2 vids to download, there are always people posting that they cant see video or whatnot. WMV is universally supported by all Windows OS's and is backwards compatible.
The second huge advantage is that you dont have to download it first, just click it and it plays(streams) right away (though with the torrents here, thats a non-issue)

But xvid is for sure obscure. Divx as we know it today was launched 4 years ago and has been fighting with microsoft to become 'the worlds standard'. Xvid on the otherhand, while based on the same mp4 standard, isnt even a commercial product. Simpy put, its an ever-changing source code modified by computer geeks all over the world.
They never claim they are trying to outdo Divx, but it is interesting that they named their codec the same as their competitor (Divx), spelled backwards. To be fair, the Divx name was ripped of from circuit city. But that's ok though, since it was a failed enterprise,lol
Xvid isnt the most obscure codec, but its not a major player like divx and wmv. Divx is the no.1 codec d/l at divx digest and has almost always been.
I was just curious as to why he switched. What were the advantages for him?

btw- i was just informed that the latest wmv has the scrub feature. Just goes to show you how often I make wmv's

[Overheat]

Well, I personally believe that XVid is the new standard. If you look on www.suprnova.org , one of the main sites for downloading TV shows, you'll see that the majority are encoded with Xvid and I think VUK has taken a big step in the right direction with this decision.

[Viper007Bond]

Yeah, XviD is pretty much a standard these days in large files. It has better quality than DivX.

[klif-e]

WMV is for the tip.

Divx and Xvid are more widely used and supported across operating systems than proprietary Microsoft crap codecs.

Sure there are problems between newer revisions of these codecs, but a typical codec update will fix them, unless of course you are using a hardware decoder and have to wait for a vendor to support the new features. eg. Xvid 1.1 specific features in the zensonics, pioneers, sonys etc...

Name one standalone media player or dvd player that can do WMV playback?

Name one portable media player that can do WMV playback?

I know of no players that match the above questions.

I am glad VUK is using Xvid sure I may have problems on the zensonic but that is the zensonics fault not VUK's.......

[zenon]

Originally Posted by autostream

But right here, the format used, should be the best one suited for the majority of its users and not just whats best for zenon.

Um, what? I think XVid and DivX are best for everyone here... if you're really concerned about it make a poll.

WMV files may work on a piece of crap program pre-installed on an awful operating system, but that doesn't make it the standard. By simply installing VLC Media Player you can play any XVid or DivX files.... if you are that dedicated to Windows Media Player, you simply have to download and install one or two small files... WMV may have been the standard a few years ago, but XVid and DivX are superior in every single way. And really, saying XVid is an obscure video format is incorrect. As Overheat said, go to Suprnova and check what people are using - nearlly all TV rips are done in DivX or Xvid these days.

Furthermore, WMV is a real pain in the ass to deal with on Linux, Mac, and as Klif-e mentioned, on media players, DVD players and portable media devices.

[ESPNSTI]

Aside from ASF and WMV being a crap format (IMHO), this is another reason why I don't like them :

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...819#post463819

Considering they might end up in the HD-DVD standard, it is already a bit to late .

[haha604]

I am sure you won't hear Microsoft when its time to upgrade your dvd player to the next generation blue laser drives. Nice to know isn;t it ?

There are only two choices: Toshiba's HD DVD and Sony's Blu Ray.

[ESPNSTI]

Originally Posted by haha604

There are only two choices: Toshiba's HD DVD and Sony's Blu Ray.

Funny you should say that, check todays news at http://www.doom9.org/ :

And then there were three: the Versatile MultiLayer Disc, based on red laser technology, sets out to be another contestant in the HD DVD race. Drives and discs that can hold anywhere from 15 GB to 30 GB should be available in fall 2005. Although, with only one company backing the technology, I'm having my doubts if VMD is really going to matter much.

http://www.physorg.com/news1960.html

[autostream]

suprnova is a hacker paradise and WMV is a not the best choice for hackers. I dont want to get into a huge argument, but quality among all these codecs is negligible since they are all based on the same mp4 format.
but check out these figures:

997 ep - Divx5.0, 348mb, 770kb (94% video, 6% is audio)48kb-audio
Enzo ep - Divx5.0, 348mb, 764kb (94% video, 6% is audio)48kb-audio
SRT ep - Xvid, 348mb, 699kb (85% video, 15% audio) 128kb-audio

My question for Vuk is why did he make this one lower video quality in exchange for better sound?

As far as Media Player compatibility, which is all im talking about, WMV files will automatically download the correct codec by itself, you dont need to do anything. So it is by far the easiest for the end user.
Though I dont like like it because it is NON editable and their are too many legal issues with it.

[bigfoot1942]

Originally Posted by autostream

suprnova is a hacker paradise and WMV is a not the best choice for hackers. I dont want to get into a huge argument, but quality among all these codecs is negligible since they are all based on the same mp4 format.
but check out these figures:

997 ep - Divx5.0, 348mb, 770kb (94% video, 6% is audio)48kb-audio
Enzo ep - Divx5.0, 348mb, 764kb (94% video, 6% is audio)48kb-audio
SRT ep - Xvid, 348mb, 699kb (85% video, 15% audio) 128kb-audio

My question for Vuk is why did he make this one lower video quality in exchange for better sound?

read the figures correctly. This doesnt mean it has a lower video quality, just a smaller videopart. This can be achieved by better compression. (by the use of a better codec and/or higher quality input-signal)
The audio sounds way better, and the video part has improved as well.

i hope you dont think "bigger is better"... or do you download your music as WAV since its bigger?

[drakin]

WMV?? WTF more like, show me a movie released in WMV format and i'll show you some crappy JW rip.

[haha604]

Originally Posted by ESPNSTI

Funny you should say that, check todays news at http://www.doom9.org/ :

http://www.physorg.com/news1960.html

That's interesting, a HD disc fomat using red laser. However without any corporate backing I very much doubt whether it will suceed though.

[autostream]

Originally Posted by klif-e

Name one standalone media player or dvd player that can do WMV playback?

Thats my whole point! What are the majority of users here doing with the vids. Are they burning them to dvd to watch on their TV? or are they like, me playing them on their computer? It makes a big difference when deciding which codec would be best

Name one portable media player that can do WMV playback?
Audiovox thera
Audiovox Maestro
Siemens SX56
T-Mobile 2003PPC
Asis Mypal
Dell Axim
HP Ipaq
Viewsonic V35
Mio 168
Hitachi G1000
Sprint 6600
Samsung I700
HHP Dolphin
Intermec 700
Symbol ppt 2800
TDS recon
unitech PA950
I could list more but i got bored
but that was an easy question

[autostream]

Originally Posted by bigfoot1942

read the figures correctly. This doesnt mean it has a lower video quality, just a smaller videopart. This can be achieved by better compression. (by the use of a better codec and/or higher quality input-signal)
The audio sounds way better, and the video part has improved as well.

i hope you dont think "bigger is better"... or do you download your music as WAV since its bigger?

That makes zero sense. You are just talking out of your ass.
They are all the same size, yet the video bit rate is lower on the Xvid one meaning video quality is lower.

[ESPNSTI]

Originally Posted by autostream

That makes zero sense. You are just talking out of your ass.
They are all the same size, yet the video bit rate is lower on the Xvid one meaning video quality is lower.

Lower bit rate doesn't automatically mean lower video quality because:

Originally Posted by bigfoot1942

This can be achieved by better compression. (by the use of a better codec and/or higher quality input-signal)

Both are true in this case (slightly better compression: XVID instead of DIVX, and a higher quality input signal: Direct digital capture instead of an analog signal).

[zenon]

Originally Posted by autostream

Audiovox thera
Audiovox Maestro
Siemens SX56
T-Mobile 2003PPC
Asis Mypal
Dell Axim
HP Ipaq

Viewsonic V35
Mio 168
Hitachi G1000
Sprint 6600
Samsung I700
HHP Dolphin
Intermec 700
Symbol ppt 2800
TDS recon
unitech PA950
I could list more but i got bored
but that was an easy question

Um, you're just listing handhelds and pocket-PCs running Windows Mobile... of course they have WMV support... However, I think the portable media player issues is not important - there are definetly more people on this forum using Mac or Linux than those that would be watching the episodes on portable media players. WMV is obviously more difficult to deal with for those using Mac and Linux.

Originally Posted by autostream

Are they burning them to dvd to watch on their TV? or are they like, me playing them on their computer?

Actually, I do burn all of the Top Gear episodes to DVD and watch them on my TV. I keep them archived on my computer, but my Dad really likes to watch the show and can't be bothered with watching it on a computer. I just burn them to DVD for him and he loves it.

Burning the episodes in DivX or XVid to DVD is extremely easy, WMV on the other hand, is an absolute nightmare. The re-encoding times are absolutely awful.

However, all that being said, I really don't think we need to discuss the way the videos are being encoded. I would say they work for 99.9% of the people on this forum. Combine that with the fact that the quality is absolutely outstanding, and this all turns into a non-issue.

[sain]

Zenon - How do you burn DivX/XviD to DVD? Is there a software you use?

thanks