How do the British afford to be Car Nuts?

[turboswede]

I just started watching Top Gear on BBC America after catching the episode on the best of the worst British cars of the 70’s and love the show. I spent a lot of my childhood in Europe in the late 70’s and early 80’s and formed a deep affection for cars we couldn’t buy here in the states. That was a great era for European cars and a terrible time for cars in the U.S. Even the cars we did get were anemic versions of the real thing with ugly rubber doorstop bumpers (ever seen a US spec BMW 320i?), but I digress.

One thing I have a hard time with are the car prices they refer to on the show. I noticed it when they reviewed the Corvette and did not talk about value for money.

I checked out some UK prices for cars available in the US and was absolutely astounded at the prices the British cough up to drive. For example:

Make Model UK Price In USD
Chevrolet Corvette £ 45,995 $ 89,400
Lotus Elise SC Touring £ 34,550 $ 67,200
Porsche Cayman £ 36,220 $ 70,400
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo £ 27,849 $ 54,100
BMW Z4 Coupe £ 32,110 $ 62,400
Nissan 350Z £ 26,795 $ 52,100
BMW 328i/325i SE £ 27,917 $ 54,300
BMW 335i £ 33,088 $ 64,300
Mini Cooper S £ 15,848 $ 30,800
BMW 328i/325i SE £ 24,907 $ 48,400
Porsche Boxter £ 33,375 $ 64,900
Honda S2000 £ 28,050 $ 54,500
Mazda Mazdaspeed3 £ 18,995 $ 36,900
Ford Mustang GT CS £ 28,995 $ 56,400

Can you believe that they would need to pay nearly $90,000 for a base Corvette or $56,000 for a Mustang GT Convertible? Even the Mini Cooper S made in the U.K. is about $8,000 (or 30%) more in Britain.

I hope that the prices I found include VAT and all other sales taxes; otherwise I can’t see how anyone could afford to drive anything fun. My daily driver is a Honda Accord with the 244hp 3.0 liter V6 and the 6 speed manual transmission that cost me the equivalent of ₤15,000. For that money in the UK I would have ended up with a Skoda Octavia with a 1.8 liter 4.

Does anyone know why cars are so expensive in the UK or (alternately) why they are so cheap here in the U.S.?

[ahpadt]

Cars in the U.S are ridiculously cheap.

This isn't strictly related to TG btw...

[Lilleput]

When a country does not have a proper public transport system cars need to be cheap. You can't compare America to Europe in anything, two different worlds.

[Labcoatguy]

Without looking at the other side of the equation, namely British incomes and costs of living, you can't begin to compare prices and make any sort of conclusion.

[Lilleput]

Originally Posted by Labcoatguy

Without looking at the other side of the equation, namely British incomes and costs of living, you can't begin to compare prices and make any sort of conclusion.

Yeah, American wages are on average lower than European, i base this only on what i can gather on hourly wages ect.


Danish minimum wage is about $21 / hr (Damn i just saw what the dollar is at )

[turboswede]

As a follow-up, here are the prices of some cars available in the US converted to GBP for a point of reference:

Make Model US Price In GBP
Chevrolet Corvette $ 46,100 £ 23,600
Lotus Elise SC Touring $ 43,990 £ 22,600
Porsche Cayman $ 49,400 £ 25,300
Mitsubishi Lancer Evo $ 32,990 £ 16,900
BMW Z4 Coupe $ 40,400 £ 20,700
Nissan 350Z $ 28,120 £ 14,400
BMW 328i/325i SE $ 35,300 £ 18,100
BMW 335i $ 40,800 £ 20,900
Mini Cooper S $ 21,200 £ 10,800
BMW 328i/325i SE $ 32,400 £ 16,600
Porsche Boxter $ 45,600 £ 23,400
Honda S2000 $ 34,300 £ 17,600
Mazda Mazdaspeed3 $ 22,340 £ 11,400
Ford Mustang GT CS $ 32,085 £ 16,400

So, while Clarkson may have an issue with the Corvette at ₤45,995, I think he would be the first one to the local Chevrolet dealership if they were on sale for ₤23,600. In addition, the above prices are MSRP, most cars (at least the US and Japanese cars) would be subject to an additional 5%-10% in discounts.

[turboswede]

Originally Posted by Lilleput

When a country does not have a proper public transport system cars need to be cheap. You can't compare America to Europe in anything, two different worlds.

In general that is true, but I ride the train into the city and walk from the station to my office so it is kind of simmilar.

[Lilleput]

Originally Posted by turboswede

In general that is true, but I ride the train into the city and walk from the station to my office so it is kind of simmilar.

Major cities mostly have quite good public transport.. Right? I was talking more small town America, from what i saw trains are pretty rare and busses are few and far between.

When the subject has been brought up before the consensus is that outside big cities a car is a must.

[turboswede]

Originally Posted by Lilleput

Yeah, American wages are on average lower than European, i base this only on what i can gather on hourly wages ect.


Danish minimum wage is about $21 / hr (Damn i just saw what the dollar is at )

On the average I think that is correct, but I do know that my exact position here in Seattle pays a little more than my position would with the same firm if I were located in Manchester. In London there would be a bump in pay but that would be the same as if I relocated to New York here in the states so I am not sure that the wage issue would explain the difference.

For example, my dad worked for metro transit as a bus driver and made about ₤26,000 ($50,000) per year, anyone know what bus drivers make in Northern England? I would think it would be similar.

[Donington]

I pay for driving by shooting tigers in the Raj, whatwhat

[maaloe]

Just as an example, this is why no one can afford being a car nut in Denmark. A new Porsche Boxster is $190,772 or £98,247, and the Boxster S is £120,509 $234,001, incl VAT and various taxes.

But then, we have a lot of trains here, some of which run occasionally

[Buba]

I've recently expressed my complaints about that in the M3 thread.
The M3 sells at a lower $ price in America than it does in Euros in the country where its built, Germany...

[anti-net]

It is a bit unfair, however us Europeans do earn more so its all relative. You've got to understand that despite claims Europe and the US are similar, There not. Worlds apart!

We do earn more in Europe, but pay more tax, so really we all earn the same. American cars are more expensive because there not imported in bulk. And as for the European cars been more expensive inside Europe than outside - Well I have no answer for that, but it annoys me.

[upyourego]

Actually from what I've been able to find online the average/median household income is about the same in the US and UK - around $44 thousand.

On the lower end of the scale - the minimum wage in the UK is about $10 per hour.

It's not just cars that are more expensive though - most things seem to be a lot more expensive in the UK than the US.

An album costs $17 and a DVD around $23.

Incidentally - in Jersey where I live the average wage is $75 thousand.

[Lilleput]

Is the minimum wage in the UK £5? I can't believe that.. Don't we have to account for the incredibly weak dollar when calculating living standards and minimum wages? You don't get much any more when you go buy dollars for £10

[Andrewticus]

Since I have lived in both countries, I have come to the conclusion that automobiles are simply made and priced to be where they are. In small town Italy, Smart Cars would be on the cheap and plentyful, whereas they are quite costly and rare in Dallas, Texas.

[Lupin_IV]

Originally Posted by anti-net

It is a bit unfair, however us Europeans do earn more so its all relative. You've got to understand that despite claims Europe and the US are similar, There not. Worlds apart!

We do earn more in Europe, but pay more tax, so really we all earn the same. American cars are more expensive because there not imported in bulk. And as for the European cars been more expensive inside Europe than outside - Well I have no answer for that, but it annoys me.

I refer to the statements early in the second paragraph to show the reason for the later statement.

If that's too vague for you, US Dollars, Pounds, and Euros all have close to the same buying power, but the exchange rate is ridiculous.

[argatoga]

Originally Posted by upyourego

It's not just cars that are more expensive though - most things seem to be a lot more expensive in the UK than the US.

An album costs $17 and a DVD around $23.

Incidentally - in Jersey where I live the average wage is $75 thousand.

I would wager a lot of that comes from the high price of gas. The more it costs to transport the more the final product will cost. I am sure there are other factors, but gas price I am sure is a significant reason.

[turboswede]

Originally Posted by Andrewticus

Since I have lived in both countries, I have come to the conclusion that automobiles are simply made and priced to be where they are. In small town Italy, Smart Cars would be on the cheap and plentyful, whereas they are quite costly and rare in Dallas, Texas.

That’s funny, we recently got a Smart car dealership here in the Seattle Metro Area and a Smart sells for about the same amount as what a loaded Mini Cooper S does. I had always thought of the Smart as a neat little urban commuter but for the same money as a Civic Si or Mini Cooper S…I think I will pass.

[the Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Lilleput

When a country does not have a proper public transport system cars need to be cheap.

So as Germany has a good public transport system, I pay much more for my car and then get to drive it behind a slow, stinky bus ... right?

Europe sucks!