How much does Jeremy Clarkson really know about cars?

[Mineworksfine]

Nerd fight! Nerd Fight! Nerd Fight! Nerd fight!

[LurkerPatrol]

Originally Posted by Labcoatguy

You canNOT burn pure oxygen. Think of it thermodynamically; trying to ignite pure oxygen means swapping oxygen bonds for oxygen bonds, and you don't release any energy that way. Apollo 1 ignited because of the materials, specifically nylon, used in the actual capsule, which would not normally burn, or burn so quickly, in a lower-oxygen atmosphere, but in that environment got fed so rapidly by the pure oxygen that it went out of control. Same reason why forest fires in windy places spread so quickly, because they're fed with oxygen, only in Apollo 1 it's fed by concentrated oxygen rather than a steady flow of lower-oxygen air.

Well burning usually means adding oxygen into the mix. "Burning" oxygen means adding energy to a mix of pure oxygen which makes it a more potent additive for any other subsequent reactions (aka burning fabric/an astronauts face). Of course if you were in a room full of nothing but oxygen and the boundaries of the room were fire resistant and you created some sparks, then nothing would happen. Throw some methane into the mix and it's soon to get messy because heating oxygen increases the efficacy of the following reaction.

Should we erm... pull at each other's pocket protectors now and slap each others faces?

[Labcoatguy]

Originally Posted by Mineworksfine

Nerd fight! Nerd Fight! Nerd Fight! Nerd fight!

Quiet you; I'm just living up to my name.

Originally Posted by LurkerPatrol

Well burning usually means adding oxygen into the mix. "Burning" oxygen means adding energy to a mix of pure oxygen which makes it a more potent additive for any other subsequent reactions (aka burning fabric/an astronauts face). Of course if you were in a room full of nothing but oxygen and the boundaries of the room were fire resistant and you created some sparks, then nothing would happen. Throw some methane into the mix and it's soon to get messy because heating oxygen increases the efficacy of the reaction.

Should we erm... pull at each other's pocket protectors now and slap at each others faces?

To generalize, burning just requires an oxidiser and fuel; the Me-163 rocket plane, for example used hydrazine and methanol. Some self-contained explosives like gunpowder burn by explosively decomposing without an outside oxidiser, but that's a different chemistry lesson. To nitpick, what you're describing with oxygen is "prepping" it for a massive explosion, so it doesn't fall under the category of "burning". So basically we're disagreeing on semantics. I can live with that. And forget pocket protectors.... we're talking fire and pyromania. This is the kind of nerdfight where we ignite magnesium rods and beat each other to flaming oblivion with them.

[LurkerPatrol]

Originally Posted by Labcoatguy

Quiet you; I'm just living up to my name.



To generalize, burning just requires an oxidiser and fuel; the Me-163 rocket plane, for example used hydrazine and methanol. Some self-contained explosives like gunpowder burn by explosively decomposing without an outside oxidiser, but that's a different chemistry lesson. To nitpick, what you're describing with oxygen is "prepping" it for a massive explosion, so it doesn't fall under the category of "burning". So basically we're disagreeing on semantics. I can live with that. And forget pocket protectors.... we're talking fire and pyromania. This is the kind of nerdfight where we ignite magnesium rods and beat each other to flaming oblivion with them.

I see what you're saying. Introducing anything into a heated/pressurized pure oxygen environment is cause for concern. Even metals will burn under such conditions. Feeding in oxygen via a supercharger/turbocharger is just going to increase the amount of fuel burned, meaning the potency of the reaction of petrol + oxy is increased. Gunpowder does need oxygen to run its reaction and produce gas but that's provided in one of the ingredients: Potassium Nitrate (KNO3). A spark is all that is needed and you're right it doesn't need an outside oxidizer.

Anyways, I like this nerd fight you've set up. I'll prep the thermite bombs and the kamikaze Kirovs (hydrogen-filled latex balloons tied with an isopropyl alcohol-dipped string ). We'll duke it out at sunrise.

[reventon]

oh god what have i started. Anyway, you cannot burn pure oxygen, unless there is something with the oxygen (even dust as someone else said before me), but that then technically means it isnt pure oxygen. In the space shuttle, they use TWO fuels, not one. They use liquid Oxygen and liquid Hydrogen, and they burn together.

[Labcoatguy]

Originally Posted by reventon

oh god what have i started. Anyway, you cannot burn pure oxygen, unless there is something with the oxygen (even dust as someone else said before me), but that then technically means it isnt pure oxygen. In the space shuttle, they use TWO fuels, not one. They use liquid Oxygen and liquid Hydrogen, and they burn together.

Yeah, we settled that Let's get back on topic before someone bathes this thread in pure oxygen and lets off a spark.

[LurkerPatrol]

Originally Posted by reventon

In the space shuttle, they use TWO fuels, not one. They use liquid Oxygen and liquid Hydrogen, and they burn together.

Yeah I kinda knew that already being in astro . What I was oddly trying to say was that you can "burn" oxygen but that just means putting energy into a system of pure oxygen which makes any subsequent reaction more explosive and more potent. And technically even if there's something in the pure oxygen environment (like a spark generator or an astronaut) it's still pure oxygen because the latent gas surrounding the environment isn't a mixture of oxygen, nitrogen, and other inert ideal gases as we've all come to know and love as "air". It's still just oxygen.

As LCG said, we've settled this and left it to be destroyed by planting it next to a thermite "bomb". Let's leave it there.

[Logik]

haha