Just been shown this..

[Roberto]

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/05/h...ting/#comments

Aside from the terrible article, look at comment 6

I can't believe someone could say that, what on earth makes people like that tick! He/she does not deserve to breath

If thats the sort of thing that happens after a mistake on a 5minute part of a 60minute television program it's no wonder the US has so many enemys. Absoultely diabolical!

Edited to say I think they have *rightfully* delteted it, for you information someone had written "Too bad the accident didn't succeed"

[deathrazor]

Now now, not all Americans are ignorant fatties.

[ascari_2]

With all due respect to everyone, as far as I know, and I am sure everyone at TG, that car manufacturers do NOT advertise the WHP. And the dynoed numbers were in line with the car's ~500hp at the crank given a 10-15% power train loss. I really don't understand why TG did what they did.

[Roberto]

There was a debate a while back between Monaro VXR500 owners about their cars dyno results because they were not reaching 500bhp that they were expecting at the wheels.. Maybe something like that.

Sorry, I was probably a little hasty with my post but I could not believe that someone had written that and also the article itself.. It's 5 minutes of tv for goodness sake. I hope (and am pretty sure) that the TG team wont read that article or what people wrote, I don't see why they shouldn't dyno a car etc. If it was a euro car would there be as many complaints?! NOPE!!

[Kip_6666]

Originally Posted by ascari_2

With all due respect to everyone, as far as I know, and I am sure everyone at TG, that car manufacturers do NOT advertise the WHP. And the dynoed numbers were in line with the car's ~500hp at the crank given a 10-15% power train loss. I really don't understand why TG did what they did.

Thats the point, I don't understand this either. Specialy not mentioning that its the same deal with other cars, even if they're American or not.

Dus.. Making it seem like it was specifically American (in my eyes).

[Mercury]

One thing that interests me...Do European compnies give WHP? as far as I know everyone gives BHP and not WHP and that piece was indeed misleading because if you take a M5 to that "rolling road" and meassure that, you will not get 500 HP you get ~447...exactly the same as the GT500.
TG likes making their point about rubbish cars, and especially rubbish American cars, but that bit was actually uncalled for.

And on another note, Hammond's GT390 still giving 250WHP is pretty damn impressive.

[CraigB]

They also say that the suspension hasn't been changed, which it has had quite a bit of tweaking. The brakes are also larger than a standard Mustang.

[teeb]

What worries me is that they're using Autoblog, which I read mainly for car news about new cars and so on, to push this "Top Gear is full of lies, and in fact the new Mustang is the best car ever" thing. This is odd as Autoblog tend not to do opinion pieces, and it reads much more like something you'd read on a sad old man's car blog and not a fairly large news site.

Please note that I've never driven a Mustang, and have no particular opinion on one other than it looks good and I'd quite happily accept one as a gift. Also note Autoblog has been given a number of tuned Mustang review cars to try, and they don't often do "In the Autoblog garage" reviews.

[Nellus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but BHP is the same as WHP...
Brake Horse Power, as in the amount of horsepower at the brakes, or that the brakes has to stop. Seems pretty similar to Wheel Horsepower, considering the brakes are attached to the wheels....

[thejaredhuang]

Originally Posted by Nellus

Correct me if I'm wrong, but BHP is the same as WHP...
Brake Horse Power, as in the amount of horsepower at the brakes, or that the brakes has to stop. Seems pretty similar to Wheel Horsepower, considering the brakes are attached to the wheels....

From Wikipedia:

Brake horsepower (bhp)

Brake horsepower (bhp) is the measure of an engine's horsepower without the loss in power caused by the gearbox, generator, differential, water pump, and other auxiliary components. Thus the prefix "brake" refers to where the power is measured: at the engine's output shaft, as on an engine dynamometer. The actual horsepower delivered to the driving wheels is less. An engine would have to be retested to obtain a rating in another system. The term "brake" refers to the original use of a band brake to measure torque during the test (which is multiplied by the engine RPM and a scaling constant to give horsepower).

In short, BHP = crank HP and not WHP

[Nellus]

Yeah, i read up on that about 10 seconds after the post.... my bad.
Logic took the wheel on that post... confusing that bhp refers to crank power.

Anyways, mustangs blow.
hahah

[bamf]

Originally Posted by Nellus

Correct me if I'm wrong, but BHP is the same as WHP...
Brake Horse Power, as in the amount of horsepower at the brakes, or that the brakes has to stop. Seems pretty similar to Wheel Horsepower, considering the brakes are attached to the wheels....

BHP is actually even further from reality...it is the amount of power generated by engine without any attachments like the gear box, exhaust systems, waterpump etc etc. So it's the power of an engine on an engine dyno outside of the car. Brake refers to the "brake band" device used to measure torque and thereby BHP.

HP (SAE) the American standard, is the measure of the horsepower at the flywheel with an installed engine with all the parts like emission control components, waterpump etc etc. So while it's not WHP, it's certainly more of an accurate representation of the actual power of the car than that of BHP. The Germans do something similar except they use a metric power rating, I don't recall those units.

[GraemeH]

I don't see the problem. People that look at the specs for the car may think "ooh it has 500hp". All they've done is show that at the end of the day that's not what you get. They could have done it with any car. But that's right, because it was an American car, it's leapt upon as another example of their bias.

This reminds me of the Z06 review. He absolutely LOVED the car and praised it no end. Then people berate him for pointing out some down sides as if it was a negative review.

Get over it. It has nothing to do with the country of origin. Otherwise why was Jeremy salivating over the Roush. Some people out there really need to get over themselves.

[Blythy]

germans use pferdestarke which is something like horse sweat or something.

[Northy]

OMG OMG OMG sombody told the yanks that there cars are no good...who really cares as they only decent thing they really make is the Z06......the americans dont take banter very well do they....id have to say that you poms are much better and have a far greater sence of humour, its prolly why i love top gear...but at least we wont the cricket

[Peter3hg]

How does anyone know that they hadn't accommodated for the loss of power through the drive train? They talked about doing that on the £10,000 Supercar challenge so I would see no reason why they wouldn't have done the same here.

[ascari_2]

It just seems to really downgrade the show. I realize these guys aren't garage guys, but come on they know that WHP and BHP is different. They're aware of the fact that they knock on every US car. So why come out, put a car like that on a dyno and then claim that it's not putting out the power that it's supposed to.

Now I'm no fan of American cars. I drive 2 Toyotas and a Volvo, and almost certainly will never own a US car, but come on, TG is supposed to be run by car guys. If you've got nothing nice to say, don't make an ass of yourself.

[ascari_2]

Originally Posted by Peter3hg

How does anyone know that they hadn't accommodated for the loss of power through the drive train? They talked about doing that on the £10,000 Supercar challenge so I would see no reason why they wouldn't have done the same here.

I would find it very difficult to approximate to such an exact amount.

Quick google search gives results very very similar to what they got, but at the wheels, not at the crank.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...no&btnG=Search

[Peter3hg]

Originally Posted by ascari_2

I would find it very difficult to approximate to such an exact amount.

They did in the Supercar challenge. I don't think they have to approximate either, AFAIK they let the engine naturally slow down with the clutch engaged which somehow allows for them to accommodate for the loss through the drive train, thus giving you the power at the flywheel.

[AnGuRuSO]

What is so bad about comment #6?