Why the Astra?

[Dsemaj]

Jeremy said he likes the Omega, one of his favourite cars to be driven in 03x07 news when it was announced that it was dropped.

[Terrarist]

Originally Posted by Hidden_Hunter

I wouldn't exactly call an astra that fast, if I was a bandit I think i'd knock off something a little quicker

Well it's the usual here. Probly bcuz it's the quickest u can go for least outside a motorbicycle down here.

And thanx for the update Dsemaj, I missed that.

[Elmo187]

Originally Posted by Final Daihatsu

One word: Understeer. All Opels/Vauxhalls have crap handling (as far as I know)

crap handling?

really now.....

so is that why the Opel Astra OPC set a Nurburgring record for being the fastest FWD car around the course and then beat it's own record i believe 2 or 3 months ago?

yeah, it has crap handling. what's really weird, is that i have a feeling that youre gonna bring up that it's only in the 8 minute range. but i'll refrain from explaining to you that it isn't a 400+hp supercar.

[GraemeH]

Well I'll tell you why I feel the way I do about Vauxhalls...

They haven't designed or made any of their cars because they really really wanted to or because they had great ideas or inspiration. They did because it's the business they're in and they have to. Drive a Vectra or a Corsa or Astra. You just feel it, that they sat down, compiled a list of all the things the rivals had in their cars in the same class (Mondeo, Fiesta, Focus), and made sure they checked all the same boxes. Whereas in a Mondeo or Fiesta or Focus you get the impression that they said "hey we could make a great all round car by doing this, that and this".

Vauxhall cars are "paint by numbers" cars. Imitation cars. Not there for the sake of the car but for the sake of competing in the market. Urgh.

Originally Posted by Elmo187

crap handling?
really now.....

so is that why the Opel Astra OPC set a Nurburgring record for being the fastest FWD car around the course and then beat it's own record i believe 2 or 3 months ago?

Laptime is a function of grip and power. Very little to do with handling. An MX-5 is a better handling car than a Viper, but there's no track in the world it'd get close to its laptime on. The hot Vauxhalls have a lot more power than their rivals. That says nothing of handling.

[Mercury]

Originally Posted by Mercury

JC said the Astra VXR was the best looking hot hatch he also said the handling now feels just fine

Originally Posted by stiggie

Actually he said it "torque-steers like a pig" and that if you hear one tearing around in circles in your housing estate in the wee hours of the morning, don't call the police, it'll just be your neighbour trying to drive it to work.

Excuse me but you completely misunderstood. Pay attention to the () what comes outside them is not continuus to whats inside them.

What i meant was that Richard said the normal Astra handles just fine. He said it not a Focus but it's grippy and inviting.

[Elmo187]

Originally Posted by GraemeH

Laptime is a function of grip and power. Very little to do with handling. An MX-5 is a better handling car than a Viper, but there's no track in the world it'd get close to its laptime on. The hot Vauxhalls have a lot more power than their rivals. That says nothing of handling.

laptime is a function of grip, power, the driver, and the way the car moves. which is gathered up into just one word, handling.

so youre pretty much saying handling and a car going around a track in a small amount of time aren't the samething?

[Vette Boss]

Handling describes how the car turns in and how it responds to certain inputs, a car doesn't need to be fast to handle well, it has nothing to do with grip or power. A Dodge Viper going into a hard corner might go round it quicker than an MX-5, but the MX-5 driver is having more fun.

You can have fun in an old MINI, it's really nippy and it handles well, but it isn't exactly fast.

[WannabeSS]

Im gonna be the one to admit, i love the way every VXR car looks.

And im happy the US is getting the Astra this year under the Saturn badge. its a good looking little car!

The Vectra i'd drive in a heartbeat. Especially the VXR. I think that thing is so mean looking. I even like that van thing TG drove! The VXR one. They all look good!

Now THIS, is a boring car. Saturn FTL


This is the hotness

[Ottobon]

Originally Posted by Vette Boss

Handling describes how the car turns in and how it responds to certain inputs, a car doesn't need to be fast to handle well, it has nothing to do with grip or power. A Dodge Viper going into a hard corner might go round it quicker than an MX-5, but the MX-5 driver is having more fun.

You can have fun in an old MINI, it's really nippy and it handles well, but it isn't exactly fast.

To elaborate, its worth mentioning that usually there are atleast two factors in concerns to handling, balance and feel (tactility). The MX-5 is a interesting car to bring up because its balance is so good that it can get away with feeling rather bland, people don't mention it often because you won't notice it in such a well sorted car, but the steering is vague, the shifter is notchy, and the whole interior shakes like a wet dog whenever you hit a bump. Its still a excellent handling car though because everything else about the feel is at the very least fine, and the balance is about as good as a small car can get.

I've read many times that older cars are generally better at "feel." Usually this is down to the fact that a lot of power assists (brakes and steering) are hard to setup correctly, where with manual steering you will almost always get good road feel.


If you need more info on such, a good case and point is the Mazda 3 (and mazdaspeed version), it corners quickly and does everything as it should, but any critical review will point out that it handles and feels really dreary.

[squirtle]

Originally Posted by Elmo187

crap handling?

really now.....

so is that why the Opel Astra OPC set a Nurburgring record for being the fastest FWD car around the course and then beat it's own record i believe 2 or 3 months ago?

yeah, it has crap handling. what's really weird, is that i have a feeling that youre gonna bring up that it's only in the 8 minute range. but i'll refrain from explaining to you that it isn't a 400+hp supercar.

It has the record because no one else has bothered to drive a hot hatch around the Ring to see which one is actually the fastest. In magazine tests of cars here in Australia the HSV VXR (Holden badged Astra OPC) is always slower (around a track, don't care about acceleration because that's not what they're designed for, or at least shouldn't be) than even the Golf GTI, which isn't exactly the fastest car in class either. If you took whatever the latest Renaultsport Megane F1 SuperEdition thing is around the Ring it would likely demolish the Astra's time since it's simply a superior and much faster car. A Japanese Civic Type-R would definitely be even faster, and probably is the actual fastest FWD production car in the world, the Astra sure as hell isn't.

[Elmo187]

Originally Posted by WannabeSS

This is the hotness

thats the only good thing about the Vectra VXR though. that's what everybody has been talking about. the Vectra infact does NOT know how to turn. 130mph into a turn and you're in the next county before you know it.

[Peter3hg]

Originally Posted by Elmo187

thats the only good thing about the Vectra VXR though. that's what everybody has been talking about. the Vectra infact does NOT know how to turn. 130mph into a turn and you're in the next county before you know it.

There was an Evo test where they actually said it out handled a 5-series IIRC.

[anti-net]

Originally Posted by Peter3hg

There was an Evo test where they actually said it out handled a 5-series IIRC.

Yup - I heard they changed the Chassis since TG tested it so would actually go round corners.

[alpha]

A Dodge Viper going into a hard corner might go round it quicker than an MX-5, but the MX-5 driver is having more fun.


I laughed hard at that one

Trust me, there isn't a corner in the world that the Viper would go around quick.

[starfox07]

Originally Posted by alpha

A Dodge Viper going into a hard corner might go round it quicker than an MX-5, but the MX-5 driver is having more fun.


I laughed hard at that one

Trust me, there isn't a corner in the world that the Viper would go around quick.

What?

Sorry that just seems completely ignorant if you are, in fact, being serious.

Vipers have one 4 FIA GT2 world championships, numerous 24 hours of Le Mans, 2 drifting championships (yeah its stupid) and 2 ALMS GT2 championships, all in the last 10 years. Now I'm pretty sure all of those championships involved corners.

(just for reference, the 96-02 GTS was rated at .98g on the lateral skidpad, argue what you want about feel and handling, I have no clue since I've never driven a viper, but the car will go round a corner)

[stiggie]

How did this go from being a Vauxhall Astra thread to being a Dodge Viper thread?

[BlaRo]

Originally Posted by stiggie

How did this go from being a Vauxhall Astra thread to being a Dodge Viper thread?

Because everybody knows American cars like the Viper can't handle and are shit, derka derka derr.

[No Boss]

Originally Posted by stiggie

How did this go from being a Vauxhall Astra thread to being a Dodge Viper thread?

Ah... I see you're new here.

Let me show you around.

"....These are the leaf springs. Careful don't get too close to them.... and here are the pushrods..."

[arg]

Originally Posted by stiggie

How did this go from being a Vauxhall Astra thread to being a Dodge Viper thread?

Both companies are owned by American ones =P (Dodge:Chrysler;Vauxhall:GM)

[petarkb]

Originally Posted by starfox07

Vipers have one 4 FIA GT2 world championships, numerous 24 hours of Le Mans, 2 drifting championships (yeah its stupid) and 2 ALMS GT2 championships, all in the last 10 years. Now I'm pretty sure all of those championships involved corners.

...In the same way that the Citroen C4 wins rallies all over the world and is in fact, a mean driving machine.