2013 Porsche 911 Turbo - Tri Turbo powered

edkwon

edkwon

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Porsche is upping the engineering ante with their 2013 911 Turbo, which our spy photographer caught yesterday, to deliver more power and better fuel efficiency all at once.
The new 911 Turbo will keep the same 3.8-liter horizontally opposed six cylinder engine as previous models, but it will have a new boost thanks to a complex tri-turbo setup similar to what BMW is using in the M550d xDrive and X5 M50d models, among others.
The system employs one smaller turbocharger and two larger ones. The smaller spools up more quickly at lower rpms, delivering an initial power boost that carries smoothly into the second and third larger units.
Although the horsepower ratings aren?t certain yet, the new system is expected to boost the 911 Turbo from 495 to 525 horsepower, which is quite close to the 530 hp 911 Turbo S.
Porsche is currently completing testing on the tri-turbo setup inside their 991, though further details can?t be that far off given that it?s slated for the 2013 model year.
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2013-Porsche-911-Turbo-05.jpg


7 speed manuals...tri turbos...I eagerly await the announcement for 5WD
 
That rear shot is strongly reminiscent of the Cayman to me. Porsche, there is such a thing as too much brand identity.
 
Emarline said:
That rear shot is strongly reminiscent of the Cayman to me. Porsche, there is such a thing as too much brand identity.
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It would make sense, Porsche is slowly and gradually making the car longer each generation and inching the engine ever so subtly into the eventual mid engine position they're eventually shooting for. Wouldn't be surprised if the rear end starts to look more like the mid engined cayman over time.
 
Emarline said:
That rear shot is strongly reminiscent of the Cayman to me. Porsche, there is such a thing as too much brand identity.
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Talk to da face. Seriously, the fronts are similar enough across the Porsche lineup that making the rears align is the next logical step. Though considering how much their new Audi and VW overlords have been guilty of the same, it might just be a trickle-down from above.
 
Interesting. However, I thought Porsche was further developing variable turbine geometry turbo which is suppose to be a small, medium, and large turbo (actually an infinite size turbo between small and large due to the angular placement of vanes), simultaneously (is this right?)? Or is Porsche already including this technology with this model. This is just getting ridiculously awesome.

Now that the displacement has been increased to 3.8 liters and an extra turbo is in the design... what does this mean in terms of horsepower for the Turbo-S and MOST importantly the GT-2(are we going to see 700hp).
 
Emarline said:
That rear shot is strongly reminiscent of the Cayman to me. Porsche, there is such a thing as too much brand identity.
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Funny, I was thinking that more than a decade ago.
 
I'm going to ask a stupid question but - do you really need THREE turbochargers? I mean - two seemed to do a pretty good job. They had similar amount of power and the previous Turbo was already incredibly fast from 40 to 70mph. So what would be the benefit of a third turbocharger?
 
_HighVoltage_ said:
I'm going to ask a stupid question but - do you really need THREE turbochargers? I mean - two seemed to do a pretty good job. They had similar amount of power and the previous Turbo was already incredibly fast from 40 to 70mph. So what would be the benefit of a third turbocharger?
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One turbo is named Big. One is named Swinging. And the third is named Dick.

(Supposedly, it's one small turbo to provide oomph while the two big ones spool up, so you always have some boost available with no lag.)
 
Wait a second, wasn't variable geometry supposed to make this multi-turbo setups obsolete?
 
The Spie said:
One turbo is named Big. One is named Swinging. And the third is named Dick.

(Supposedly, it's one small turbo to provide oomph while the two big ones spool up, so you always have some boost available with no lag.)
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That's what I was thinking as well. A variable geometry turbo, in theory, can be a small or a large turbo depending on the angle of the vanes, resulting in a controlled differential of flow within the turbo housing.

Someone mentioned about the systems being complicated. I'm sure they are but it doesn't sound anything as complicated as their engines that are using complicated alloy materials with high compression and high stress components because of high r.p.m's.... I mean we are talking about Porsche.... one of the kings of engineering the near impossible. :)
 
I'm not expert in turbos, but I'd guess the problem with VTG (in addition to cost with petrol engines where exhaust gases can easily go beyond 1000?C thus making material requirements in turbine side pretty extreme) is that when you use it in the "small turbo" mode you still have to rotate much larger and heavier turbine. Works also the other way around. When you're really going for it and you use the other end, the "big turbo", the compressor still has extra space for that "small turbo" mode, which now just adds weight. So the turbos spool up easily in any kind of rpms, but extra weight in the turbine creates some inertia, which you feel as turbo lag. Maybe now they have one small non-VTG and pretty lag free turbo that helps you to get going and then 997 style twin VTG turbos to keep you going?

Anyway, sounds interesting.
 
Redliner said:
Wait a second, wasn't variable geometry supposed to make this multi-turbo setups obsolete?
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In theory yes, in practice they are expensive, complicated and prone to failure.
 
Well... Most of the current European diesels use VTG turbochargers. It's been common feature for the last 6-7 years at least, maybe much longer. And if you don't know, diesels are not rare here. Quite the opposite, it's the petrol models that are getting rare. For diesels they're relatively inexpensive and extremely mass produced and also totally reliable. So VTG technology itself is no problem.

VTG for petrol engine is different and so far only Porsche has managed to do it (diesel exhaust gases are ~200?C versus ~1200?C for petrol), but I haven't heard them being prone to failure. But yeah, they're pretty expensive.
 
Lastsoul said:
Well... Most of the current European diesels use VTG turbochargers. It's been common feature for the last 6-7 years at least, maybe much longer. And if you don't know, diesels are not rare here. Quite the opposite, it's the petrol models that are getting rare. For diesels they're relatively inexpensive and extremely mass produced and also totally reliable. So VTG technology itself is no problem.

VTG for petrol engine is different and so far only Porsche has managed to do it (diesel exhaust gases are ~200?C versus ~1200?C for petrol), but I haven't heard them being prone to failure. But yeah, they're pretty expensive.
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Good point, all the pre production R&D can't reproduce years of real world road use and maybe Porsche's bean counters and engineers decided the cost + results weren't what they wanted, so they went a different way. I have a feeling this tri-turbo setup will be just as expensive in its own way, just from the increased number of components and complexity.
 
Lastsoul said:
Well... Most of the current European diesels use VTG turbochargers. It's been common feature for the last 6-7 years at least, maybe much longer. And if you don't know, diesels are not rare here. Quite the opposite, it's the petrol models that are getting rare. For diesels they're relatively inexpensive and extremely mass produced and also totally reliable. So VTG technology itself is no problem.

VTG for petrol engine is different and so far only Porsche has managed to do it (diesel exhaust gases are ~200?C versus ~1200?C for petrol), but I haven't heard them being prone to failure. But yeah, they're pretty expensive.
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For petrol cars it's much more complicated. With the increased cooling requirements for heat considerations (the biggest issue), you must also work with a much different power band. A petrol power band requires large changes throughout the rev range, especially compared to diesel, and much more rapid changes as well. It just adds so much complexity and weight it's just simpler to run a compound setup at a much lower cost.
 
7 speed manual?
3 turbos?

Engineering through complication.
 
Eunos_Cosmo said:
7 speed manual?
3 turbos?

Engineering through complication.
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They have the time to work this stuff out, given the minimal amount of effort put into restyling the body.
 
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