Automakers back EU-US trade deal that would standardize safety standards

Interesting that the automakers are backing this. Changing safety standards opens the door to a lot of automakers that otherwise wouldn't be able to market their products in the states. I would have expected GM to have opposed this because their products aren't competitive with cars from other markets.

Hopefully this means we'll get better small cars, specifically the ones that we want so much, like the Citroens and the right Fiats.
 
I do not want to see many of the idiot 'pedestrian safety' equipment regs of Europe foisted on us by this. For example, brush guards and things like Ranch Hand bumpers are essentially illegal there, and that's fucked up.

I also don't want to see our existing safety standards relaxed - the US has more stringent occupant safety regs than the EU. Case in point would be the GWiz, which is legal over there as a fully legal road user and is not over here because it can't meet any impact standard.
 
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We don't want your incessant beeping and stupid stickers and illumination regulations either. All will be well as long as you accept our clearly superior standard. As you think yours is superior, we will be at an impasse, and nothing will come out of it, and in the end everybody will be happy with their own standards. :)

Not the first time harmonizing have been suggested.
 
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Beeping isn't something we came up with (IIRC, it was a French invention) and aside from the seatbelt reminder (which the EU also requires now) it's not actually mandated here.

Need I remind you of the VW Golf's tri-tone beeper that plays "La Cucaracha?"

Spectre said:
Most cars here only have two or three alerts that come on in specific conditions - headlight on/ignition off, door open/key in ignition/ignition not in run, and ignition set to start/seatbelt not fastened. That's it. In fact, it's often the foreign makes that add additional audible alerts like ice warnings, top open, and even on a few that had "you have turned your car off, so I will beep to tell you that your radio is secured" bongs.

Of course, the most annoying bonging/beeping noise ever to appear in the US market is the VW "La Cucaracha" tri-tone alert.
[video=youtube;6lr3vEK-74g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6lr3vEK-74g#![/video]

Yes, that king of automotive annoyance was stock on every US market VW for quite a while. Yes, even the German made ones. For no apparent good reason. I would rather hear the $0.68 piezo buzzer that Jaguar, GM and a boatload of other companies fitted to their cars than that awfulness.
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Spectre said:
Beeping isn't something we came up with (IIRC, it was a French invention) and aside from the seatbelt reminder (which the EU also requires now) it's not actually mandated here.
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Does it really matter who invented it? The fact is that cars for the american market have to be fitted with all sorts of beeping things and lots of warning stickers (stating the very obvious) simply because in the US it is very easy to (successfully) sue the manufacturers for some crazy accident caused by the consumers own stupidity.
 
Ford Prefect said:
Does it really matter who invented it? The fact is that cars for the american market have to be fitted with all sorts of beeping things and lots of warning stickers (stating the very obvious) simply because in the US it is very easy to (successfully) sue the manufacturers for some crazy accident caused by the consumers own stupidity.
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Warning stickers, yes. Beepers, no. The only beeping that's required by law is the seatbelt reminder, which is now the law in the EU as well as I recall. Anything else is whatever the manufacturer wanted it to beep for.

By the way, most of those stickers aren't on there because the lawyers are afraid of being sued but because our idiot government mandated them. Case in point: http://www.nhtsa.gov/About+NHTSA/Pr...over+Warning+Label+For+Sport+Utility+Vehicles
 
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No they do not beep here, a dash reminder is satisfactory (Some do having said that but turn themselves off after a few beeps) - unless they changed the regs recently.

Actually 95% (Estimate) of the regs are probably compatible, we have an extension over most countries in Ukania where we have to have a bright red fog lamp on the rear of the cars because it is much more rainey and foggy here than in most places. I am not sure if the Yupees have to have the same.

Running lights have never been used here but will be coming our way soon - stupid idea I think but we will do it to keep in line with other countries.

With a bit of give and take I am sure that there could be a sensible world standard developed actually, never mind USA and EU only - anyway I hope this works because it should make for a safer car at a lower cost.

The GWiz is horribly dangerous and avoids the law due to its electric Green-ness probably. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVAi

When will people realise electricity is not the way to go to cut emissions? You know powerstations. ...
 
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AiR has a point here - nothing will get done if each side sticks to their guns.

Spectre, you don't like all the pedestrian safety regulations in the EU, and I see your point...some of them are quite excessive. But on the other hand, so are the Ranch Hand bumpers that you mentioned - those are just as excessive, but on the opposite side of the spectrum.
 
_HighVoltage_ said:
AiR has a point here - nothing will get done if each side sticks to their guns.

Spectre, you don't like all the pedestrian safety regulations in the EU, and I see your point...some of them are quite excessive. But on the other hand, so are the Ranch Hand bumpers that you mentioned - those are just as excessive, but on the opposite side of the spectrum.
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In what sense are they excessive? If you drive where I do, you need them to protect your vehicle or you get *real* friendly with the body shop as you have to have body panels replaced on a regular basis. And the EU directives have no exceptions for 'need' - just O NO U MIGHT HURT SOMEONE TOO STUPID TO GET OUT OF THE STREET BAN BAN BAN BAN.

For that matter, how exactly is removing such bars and bumpers going to help the pedestrian? They're still getting hit by seven thousand pounds of truck!
 
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Does that mean you regularly hit things, and that's why you need the Ranch Hand bumper? If so, what is it you are running over?
 
_HighVoltage_ said:
Does that mean you regularly hit things, and that's why you need the Ranch Hand bumper? If so, what is it you are running over?
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Yes, it's called "offroading" and we hit things called "rocks" and "dirt". It is also called "a concrete plant" where nothing is paved in the production facility and there are huge holes and other such bodywork destroying stuff. It's also called "my friends' ranches" where there are unpaved hills, creeks and the occasional rock outcropping that gets hit or scraped. Occasionally it's called "a construction site" where there's all sorts of crap running around with not terribly cautious operators, to say nothing about the then-unimproved nature of the site.

There are *many* places where such protective gear is required for vehicles. I will cheerfully forgo all such things when the people making such regulations will pay for each and every repair that will be required when the lack of said things damages my vehicle in the normal course of use.
 
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Spectre said:
Beeping and bonging and idiot light now mandatory for new cars in EU: http://forums.finalgear.com/automot...g-soon-to-euro-market-cars-54605/#post1995620
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Supposing you are deaf? I am not a great fan (As in not at all) of the EU and this was something that I thought they could be good at. ? Should have known better.

Well, and now for some Bleep and Booster (A childhood favourite of mine).


A lot of this stuff is for Southern Europe as they do not like seat belts that much, Nanny Brussells has decided that they should. EU 1 : Grown Up Car Driver 0
 
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Spectre said:
And the EU directives have no exceptions for 'need' - just O NO U MIGHT HURT SOMEONE TOO STUPID TO GET OUT OF THE STREET BAN BAN BAN BAN.

For that matter, how exactly is removing such bars and bumpers going to help the pedestrian? They're still getting hit by seven thousand pounds of truck!
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What ban are you talking about? Here's a normal Hilux. Most pickups have those. :dunno:

4993464768.jpg
 
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AiR said:
What ban are you talking about? Here's a normal Hilux. Has light fixture/bumper bars like most pickups. :dunno:
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1676832.stm

Bull bars are to be banned from all new cars sold within the European Union from 1 January. {2001}

A voluntary agreement with the car industry approved by EU governments on Monday also means all new cars must be fitted daytime lights by the beginning of 2002, and with anti-skid ABS braking systems and daytime lights by 2003.

Further changes to car front design are to be introduced by 2005, and a comprehensive set of changes by 2010.

Bull bars have been targeted by road safety pressure groups because they increase the injuries caused to pedestrians involved in road accidents.
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And then they canned the aftermarket bull bars. http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-re...tems-for-pedestrian-protection-154872745.html

WOLVERHAMPTON, England, May 23 /PRNewswire/ -- From Friday 25th May 2007, the UK Minister of State for Transport has confirmed it is illegal to continue to manufacture, market non approved metal bull bars (no sale is necessary to be breaking the law) and sell metal bull bars that do not comply with the new EU legislation (Directive 2005/66/EC) for pedestrian protection. The maximum penalty to be imposed within the UK is 12 months in prison and a substantial GBP20,000 fine.

Metal bull bars, nudge bars and none compliant Frontal Protection Systems (FPSs) will be banned by the new European law
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The latter press release goes on to try to promote something called the Endura FPS. Which turns out to be this shitty soft plastic thing that doesn't do crap for anyone actually using their vehicle on non-paved roads or on unimproved lands: http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2922696/Endura_FPS_Kopfaufprall_test

2005/66/EC has been repealed and replaced with ECR 78/2009, which basically says the same thing in simpler form. Either way, no more bull bars or bumpers that incorporate bull bars or anything that might actually be protective in an off-pavement environment.
 
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Not banned. Regulated. :yes:
Says right in the document you linked the provisions for approval. Having protection from the woodyness is of course a moot point for a car as it isn't allowed off road in any case in this country. However that's national legislation and not regulated in any EU standard to my knowledge, but I imagine it's the same in many countries.
 
I hope they combine the best of the two worlds and get rid of the worst. People over here would be offended by crap like this....

Rear-view-mirror-caption.jpg


Ford Prefect said:
Does it really matter who invented it? The fact is that cars for the american market have to be fitted with all sorts of beeping things and lots of warning stickers (stating the very obvious) simply because in the US it is very easy to (successfully) sue the manufacturers for some crazy accident caused by the consumers own stupidity.
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Or diesel cars with a modified fuel fillers so you can't put gas in them.
 
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AiR said:
Not banned. Regulated. :yes:
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Banned, tiny push bars (aka damage multipliers)like the one you posted are still allowed yes, real full size Bull bars or ranch hand bumpers and you will NOT pass MoT.

Remember Spectre speaks of things like this:
9241d1292102942-ranch-hand-bumpers-installed-img_2640.jpg


On everything in between it's pretty much the inspectors choice what he lets pass and what not, but anything substantial will not pass......you know because a second rate mechanic in a base income job is an expert on vehicle safety.

Obviously in my universe all cars should have one, works wonders on reckless pedestrianism.
 
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Fine! If we're going to stick to our guns, then I want pop-up headlights to be made legal again! :p
 
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