Toyota Confirms MR2 Successor To Sit Next To GT86 & Supra

Lastsoul said:
I don't want to sound harsh. Mustang is a good car for the US market. It certainly doesn't lack character, which is the usual problem in European cars. But it's too big, too unpolished to shine on our road network. And because of that, in most European countries it's also too expensive for what it offers. If you prefer corners to straight line performance, cars like the GT86 or MX-5 just suit this part of the world better than the Mustang.

That said, I'd love to try GT350.
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lol...then I guess M4s, S5s, and C63 Coupes aren't really suited to that part of the world either.
 
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People who buy an M4, S5 or C63 are completely different type of persons with different characteristics, such as age and income ...
 
Mitchi said:
People who buy an M4, S5 or C63 are completely different type of persons with different characteristics, such as age and income ...
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Right, look at how the Mustang is priced, specifically the GT350/GT350R, and the age of person that those trims appeal to...
 
I thought we were talking outside of NA? Because in Europe, the GT350/R is an absolute exception ... you can be glad to ever see one on the road.
 
Mitchi said:
I thought we were talking outside of NA? Because in Europe, the GT350/R is an absolute exception ... you can be glad to ever see one on the road.
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I mean initially I was pointing out the hypocrisy in saying the Mustang isn't suited to "European" roads. Because if the Mustang isn't suited to drive them than neither are the cars I listed.

The GT350/GT350R are absolute exceptions just like the M4 GTS is an absolute exception. The GT with the track pack compares favorably performance wise to an M4 while the GT350/R compares favorable to the M4 GTS.
 
Cellos88GT said:
I mean initially I was pointing out the hypocrisy in saying the Mustang isn't suited to "European" roads. Because if the Mustang isn't suited to drive them than neither are the cars I listed.

The GT350/GT350R are absolute exceptions just like the M4 GTS is an absolute exception. The GT with the track pack compares favorably performance wise to an M4 while the GT350/R compares favorable to the M4 GTS.
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No need for a GT350, here is a standard 2011 MGT vs 2011 M3. Mind you this is the s197 with a stick axle costing nearly half as much as the M3 being able to keep up with it on the track. But I guess M3 is not a car that can live in Europe :p
 
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I get it, the thing I was pointing out is the people who buys a C63 etc. in Europe... either young, rich-daddy-kids, YouTube cunts (sorry, but it's the truth), or (>90%) 45+ year old business man. Those people will probably never ever buy a Mustang, Challenger, what ever... it's just not their cup of tea, not business like enough. That's the thing ...
 
Mitchi said:
I get it, the thing I was pointing out is the people who buys a C63 etc. in Europe... either young, rich-daddy-kids, YouTube cunts (sorry, but it's the truth), or (>90%) 45+ year old business man. Those people will probably never ever buy a Mustang, Challenger, what ever... it's just not their cup of tea, not business like enough. That's the thing ...
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I'd be willing to bet that you are wrong on that, plenty of enthusiasts buy M cars if they can afford them, those would definitely be cross shopping for a Mustang but Cellos and I were responding more to
Lastsoul said:
If you prefer corners to straight line performance, cars like the GT86 or MX-5 just suit this part of the world better than the Mustang.
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Oh, not denying that :)
 
I guess I was quite straightforward in that. Mustang just doesn't compare to M4 or C63 Coupe here, totally different people are buying it. People want luxury, performance and refinement. Mustang gives characterful engine and pretty much straight line speed, but on proper rough twisty roads in Germany or UK for example it just isn't as enjoyable as a basic GT86 for example. Of course some people just want power and they will get the Mustang, it isn't that black and white.

I guess the GT350 isn't even officially sold in any European country, but there are few gray imports. The GT350 is surely special, but base GT is miles away from the C63 or Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio or even the M4, which I personally don't like. I'm not sure if the car I drove had Track Pack, option names might be different here. It had Recaros, Brembos and the lot. It was okayish, but on those roads a standard Focus RS (or even FWD Leon Cupra Performance Pack, honestly) would've been way faster.
 
Lastsoul said:
I guess I was quite straightforward in that. Mustang just doesn't compare to M4 or C63 Coupe here, totally different people are buying it. People want luxury, performance and refinement. Mustang gives characterful engine and pretty much straight line speed, but on proper rough twisty roads in Germany or UK for example it just isn't as enjoyable as a basic GT86 for example. Of course some people just want power and they will get the Mustang, it isn't that black and white.

I guess the GT350 isn't even officially sold in any European country, but there are few gray imports. The GT350 is surely special, but base GT is miles away from the C63 or Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio or even the M4, which I personally don't like. I'm not sure if the car I drove had Track Pack, option names might be different here. It had Recaros, Brembos and the lot. It was okayish, but on those roads a standard Focus RS (or even FWD Leon Cupra Performance Pack, honestly) would've been way faster.
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I don't doubt people (in Europe, here, doesn't matter) who look at the hi-po Euro cars won't necessarily cross shop the Mustang GT, but that doesn't change the fact that performance-wise in a straight or around a circuit it holds its own. Of course it's not a GT86 in the handling category, but then neither are those other Euro cars you mentioned.
 
Who's buying what matters little in regards to your point about Mustangs only being suited for straight-line performance.
 
This thread has derailed so far that this is the first post on this page that even mentions the MR2 that this original thread was about.
 
Lastsoul said:
I guess I was quite straightforward in that. Mustang just doesn't compare to M4 or C63 Coupe here, totally different people are buying it.
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Then why is it outselling all other sports cars?

People want luxury, performance and refinement. Mustang gives characterful engine and pretty much straight line speed, but on proper rough twisty roads in Germany or UK for example it just isn't as enjoyable as a basic GT86 for example. Of course some people just want power and they will get the Mustang, it isn't that black and white.

I guess the GT350 isn't even officially sold in any European country, but there are few gray imports. The GT350 is surely special, but base GT is miles away from the C63 or Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio or even the M4, which I personally don't like. I'm not sure if the car I drove had Track Pack, option names might be different here. It had Recaros, Brembos and the lot. It was okayish, but on those roads a standard Focus RS (or even FWD Leon Cupra Performance Pack, honestly) would've been way faster.
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Well now you are comparing completely different things, on
proper rough twisty roads
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M4 and the like would be just as bad, it's a simple problem of having too much power. Even the Z was too much car on "non proper rough twisty roads" in upstate NY, it's mostly 2nd gear stuff with a little bit of third if you are brave stupid.

By this logic even the Z4 would be "unsuitable for european roads"
 
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JimCorrigan said:
I don't doubt people (in Europe, here, doesn't matter) who look at the hi-po Euro cars won't necessarily cross shop the Mustang GT, but that doesn't change the fact that performance-wise in a straight or around a circuit it holds its own. Of course it's not a GT86 in the handling category, but then neither are those other Euro cars you mentioned.
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Actually the Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio is pretty damn impressive, first class damping and superb traction. I'm not much of a fan of the M3/M4, it's overpowered and numb.

Anyway, I'm not saying the Mustang is a bad car. It just isn't very ideal choice in this part of the world.
 
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