Talk me out of a Honda CR-Z - or not?

[Eye-Q]

As I just started working at a new job I now have to commute through the city including roadworks, traffic jams etc., and my E46 isn't exactly the most economical for that kind of driving...

The thing is that I hate automatics with a passion so that's out of the question, but I still like the idea of a hybrid of some sort to lower gas consumption and emissions, I don't need to drive purely electric though. I don't want an anonymous compact car like a Corsa or something either, the car has to be at least a little bit interesting.
That brings me to the Honda CR-Z which as far as I know is the only hybrid with a manual transmission. There a 5 year old one with 100 tkm for 8500 Euros at a dealer in my town, I think I'll go there tomorrow to test drive the car. The price includes a one year warranty so that's a reason to buy it from a dealer. I know it's not that powerful at 124 hp, but as it's just 1245 kg the power-to-weight-ratio isn't that bad.

Does anyone other than Vitros have any experience with that car? I found out that there can be noises from the windscreen at high-ish speeds (150+ kph), but as I won't use the car for Autobahn storming that won't be a problem. Additionally, there can be sizzling from the bootlid, that should be obvious on the test drive. The teething problems should be fixed, I think that mileage is a bit of a plus since it's high enough to have the little gremlins eliminated but not high enough to cause much trouble in the wearout department.

 

[MWF]

Just go for it. I test drove one last year when I was helping Mum choose a new car. Sharpest and most direct steering of anything I've ever driven this side of an Elise. It's on my list of cars to own in the future. Just make sure you get a white one.

 

[prizrak]

it's a fwd hybrid do you need any other reasons not to?

 

[Cowboy]

Not to mention it's a Honda, and for a hybrid it's not that green or economical.

How many tanks of E46 feul does 8500 euro buy? And a commutre box also needs, insurance, roadtax, maintenance etc, and remember we are talking about a lightweight, 'hybrid', funky honda with 100k on the clock already, how long before you need to replace it with something else? That's another boatload of E46 feul money out the window, again......I really don't see this making much financial sense.

 

[narf]

How many tanks of E46 feul does 8500 euro buy? And a commutre box also needs, insurance, roadtax, maintenance etc, and remember we are talking about a lightweight, 'hybrid', funky honda with 100k on the clock already, how long before you need to replace it with something else? That's another boatload of E46 feul money out the window, again......I really don't see this making much financial sense.

That. Buying a second car to save money very rarely works out financially.

While wear and repairs probably won't be a big issue because you'll lower that cost for the BMW, everything else is going to eat up the fuel savings and then some.
I'll guess your daily commute is 40-50km? I'd expect you can save one to two litres per day, so 200 to 400 litres per year in fuel... that might be 250-600? a year, depending on petrol prices.
Insurance and (cheap) taxes would likely consume the lower estimate entirely. While you have the distance-related depreciation anyway, you now have two cars ageing together - that additional cost in depreciation is easily going to consume the gap towards the higher estimate... so with just these small parts of your total cost of ownership any possible saving is gone already.



PS: Unless this is replacing the BMW...?

 

[gt1750]

You sound like you are pretty much dead set on getting it. I'd only be afraid of overpriced special parts and limited practicality.

If you took a step back in the individuality department, you could still have some fun behind the wheel of a newer, more practical and actually more economical Fiesta 1.0.

If you want individuality, economy and power, certain Italian automaker might have just the right car for you

 

[LeVeL]

it's a fwd hybrid do you need any other reasons not to?

 

[Redliner]

Motorcycle?

 

[DanRoM]

HVV?

 

[Eye-Q]

One more thing: I never really noticed how heavy the clutch of my E46 is since my old commute went the other way almost without any congestion. Now that I drove through Hamburg in rush hour it becomes apparent that I need a car with a lighter clutch.

Just go for it. I test drove one last year when I was helping Mum choose a new car. Sharpest and most direct steering of anything I've ever driven this side of an Elise. It's on my list of cars to own in the future. Just make sure you get a white one.

Why in white?

it's a fwd hybrid do you need any other reasons not to?

I think in city traffic, without any hills whatsoever FWD or RWD isn't really noticeable.

Not to mention it's a Honda,

That means I expect it to be reliable which is good for a commuter car.

and for a hybrid it's not that green or economical.

5,5 l/100 km in city traffic is reasonable, I don't think downsized snotboxes without hybrid support will achieve better figures.

How many tanks of E46 feul does 8500 euro buy? And a commutre box also needs, insurance, roadtax, maintenance etc, and remember we are talking about a lightweight, 'hybrid', funky honda with 100k on the clock already, how long before you need to replace it with something else? That's another boatload of E46 feul money out the window, again......I really don't see this making much financial sense.

That. Buying a second car to save money very rarely works out financially.

That's right, but I'll have a bit of peace of conscience, knowing I'll approximately halve the fuel consumption.

I'll guess your daily commute is 40-50km?

It's 18 km one-way, all through heavy traffic in Hamburg.

You sound like you are pretty much dead set on getting it. I'd only be afraid of overpriced special parts and limited practicality.

For practicality I'll still have my touring.

If you took a step back in the individuality department, you could still have some fun behind the wheel of a newer, more practical and actually more economical Fiesta 1.0.

Nope, I don't want a Fiesta, Corsa or some other one-in-a-million snotbox.

If you want individuality, economy and power, certain Italian automaker might have just the right car for you

Chris Bangle said this about the MiTo: "It looks as if you kicked a squirrel in it's nuts" so while it's certainly individual, it's ugly...

Motorcycle?

No license.

HVV?

At least 1 1/2 hours one-way. I needed 35 minutes each way on Friday, but Friday is the least congested day of the week so I expect at least 50 minutes on Monday which is still half the time of public transport.

I'll look at the one I linked in my first post on Monday, maybe the interior is too nasty for my taste or something, coming from a BMW...

 

[narf]

5,5 l/100 km in city traffic is reasonable, I don't think downsized snotboxes without hybrid support will achieve better figures.

Yeah, non-hybrids suffer a lot if you're only doing city traffic... though I doubt you'll get 5.5l in Hamburg traffic.

That's right, but I'll have a bit of peace of conscience, knowing I'll approximately halve the fuel consumption.

You'll more than double the non-fuel waste of your driving though. 7200km a year (18*2*200) is nowhere near enough to make up for that. If your BMW averages 10l and this averages 6l, you'll save 288l of fuel per year, or 388? at current prices. That's an expensive maybe-peace of conscience.



You want RWD, right?

Spoiler

Should be the most conscience for your Euro. Lightly used models start at 5k?, running cost should be lower than the Honda.

 

[prizrak]

I think in city traffic, without any hills whatsoever FWD or RWD isn't really noticeable.

It's the principle of the matter.

No license.

Get one

 

[Eye-Q]

You'll more than double the non-fuel waste of your driving though. 7200km a year (18*2*200) is nowhere near enough to make up for that.

I won't just use it for commuting so I'll do at least twice that, all in Hamburg.

If your BMW averages 10l and this averages 6l, you'll save 288l of fuel per year, or 388? at current prices. That's an expensive maybe-peace of conscience.

If my BMW would average 10l I wouldn't consider getting a CR-V, but it averages about 12l in city traffic...

You want RWD, right?

RWD isn't necessary, as I said in city traffic without hills there should be no difference whatsoever.

Spoiler

Should be the most conscience for your Euro. Lightly used models start at 5k?, running cost should be lower than the Honda.

1) No manual transmission
2) No possibilty to charge either at home or at work...

 

[Redliner]

1- Get a motorcycle license.
2- Avoid traffic.
3- ???
4 - Profit

 

[narf]

I won't just use it for commuting so I'll do at least twice that, all in Hamburg.

If my BMW would average 10l I wouldn't consider getting a CR-V, but it averages about 12l in city traffic...

Still expensive while that raises the annual fuel money savings to 1166?, I still don't think it'll outweigh the second-car depreciation after insurance, taxes, etc.
Did you check your insurance rates for the CR-Z? It is several classes more expensive than the 320i (18-21-22 vs 15-19-16).

1) No manual transmission
2) No possibilty to charge either at home or at work...

I'd say "drive it" to the "no manual" part, but number two ruins it

 

[TobiasG]

If you have to battle traffic every day, why do you want a manual?

 

[prizrak]

If you have to battle traffic every day, why do you want a manual?

Because manuals are better full stop. (Disregard the fact that my left calf is noticeably bigger than my right )

 

[Dr_Grip]

With 5l/100km fuel consumption, go for the original car of our generation: A Mk2 Golf with the diesel engine. Can now be registered on historic plates to avoid dirty diesel taxation levels.

 

[TobiasG]

Because manuals are better full stop. (Disregard the fact that my left calf is noticeably bigger than my right )

There is a place for a manual. City traffic is not that place

 

[MWF]

If FWD isn't an issue but you want fuel economy and ease of city traffic how about a Seat Leon FR Cupra 2.0 diesel which I believe comes with DSG? Dunno what prices are like there theses days but get one a couple of years old or so and it shouldn't be too expensive. And our very own eisbaer has one so you can get first hand ownership experience from him.