Bike Maintence

The funny thing is, I've never taken it off-road. :) (the occasional gravel road doesn't really count as off-road, does it?)

This requires almost constant rear brake application though. (It's also very good for killing clutches) I also use it a lot in city conditions with lots of start-stop traffic and I do indeed use the rear brake quite often. It is after all the ideal way to stabilize the bike in slow moving traffic or when going into a corner.

Add to this Spectre's argument that the caliper might be a little to light for the heavy Tiger and it all adds up, I guess.

I have to admit it really caught me by surprise though. My previous bike (Honda CB600F/A Hornet) had about 13.000km on it when I sold it and as far as I know it never had a new set of pads front or rear. I drove it for 5000km and when I sold it the pads still looked good front and rear.
I still have 4000km to go until my next scheduled maintenance on the Tiger so I never really thought to check how the pads were doing. The ones on the front wheel still have plenty of life left in them though.
 
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You have the wrong bike for gymkhana. :p Which, yeah, can make rear brake pads vanish fast.

I would suggest you work on technique for your city riding, you don't usually want to use that much rear brake for 'stabilization'. Barring mechanical failure or misdesign, it is generally thought that the rear brake should be used more as a corrective measure for city corner stabilization as opposed to a primary stabilization technique. I would also mention that in slow traffic, it's the front brakes that should be most commonly used, not the rear. You *can* use the front brake and throttle at the same time.
 
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I sold my SV at over 70000km, with the original rear brake pad :lol:
 
You have the wrong bike for gymkhana. :p Which, yeah, can make rear brake pads vanish fast.

My third place trophy disagrees with you. :p
I was only bested by a Honda Crosstourer (also not exactly a perfect gymkhana bike) and a CBR1000RR (set up for gymkhana). Technically a Honda CB500F beat me as well, but he dropped his bike in the finals which promoted me from 4th to 3rd.

I would suggest you work on technique for your city riding, you don't usually want to use that much rear brake for 'stabilization'. Barring mechanical failure or misdesign, it is generally thought that the rear brake should be used more as a corrective measure for city corner stabilization as opposed to a primary stabilization technique. I would also mention that in slow traffic, it's the front brakes that should be most commonly used, not the rear. You *can* use the front brake and throttle at the same time.

Stabilisation is maybe the wrong word. In slow moving traffic I use it in combination with clutch and throttle to avoid having to stop completely to the point where I can almost stand still, but this requires full on brake application combined with about 3000rpm of throttle + clutch. So I'm wondering how long my clutch will last as well. :D
As for going into a corner I apply some rear brake as I roll on the throttle, to smoothen the delivery, to avoid the bike lunging forward when opening up the gas. It's a technique I was taught by but the guy riding the Crosstourer, who also happens to be a motorcycle cop, so he kinda knows what he's doing. :) (In his spare time he gives riding classes to anyone from beginners to advanced riders, since I got the Hornet in april 2013 I've been to his classes about 4 times.)


You *can* use the front brake and throttle at the same time.

Though it's true, it's not something I'd want to do while city riding. On the other hand it's a technique I need to work on because it's really helpful for shaving some time off when doing a figure 8 Grand Prix. :D
But honestly I'm not at that level of confidence just yet.
 
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Bike Maintence

Brake and throttle together is a critical skill for urban riding safety - it's the next step after guarding your front brake at all times. It isn't hard, just takes practice. Doing it right will also increase the precision by which you can apply throttle.

Also, if you need to brake while accelerating in a corner to 'soften power delivery', you are doing it wrong. Unless you have fists of ham and don't want to improve, your throttle modulation should be good enough that you don't do that. No wonder your brake is shot!

Start at 13:24 here:

Goes through 4:45 here:

Stabilisation is maybe the wrong word. In slow moving traffic I use it in combination with clutch and throttle to avoid having to stop completely to the point where I can almost stand still, but this requires full on brake application combined with about 3000rpm of throttle + clutch. So I'm wondering how long my clutch will last as well. :D

I *know* the Tiger has more low end torque than that. You should be able to just creep forward in traffic just a touch off idle with the clutch, brake and throttle - not screaming at 3000rpm.

By the way, regarding motorcycle cops as instructors... yeah, I've found that most motorcycle cops actually don't know all that much about riding and have some odd ideas about how things work. There are very few departments that have properly trained their officers to the point where they would be able to instruct on truly proper technique.
 
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I was taught to use the rear brake only in slow, creeping riding. The purpose of it was to keep the chain tight, so no bouncing occurred. I use that technique only when going very slowly, close to walking pace, otherwise it's just balancing between clutch+throttle, mostly just the clutch. It of course depends on the bike and its torque, but I hardly use any throttle at all in slow riding. Usually I just play around with the clutch and only use enough throttle for the bike not to sound like it's going to choke.

I don't have any experience in going f*cking fast on a race track or anything like that, but using the brake after corners just to balance the bike sounds very weird to me.
 
Also, if you need to brake while accelerating in a corner to 'soften power delivery', you are doing it wrong. Unless you have fists of ham and don't want to improve, your throttle modulation should be good enough that you don't do that. No wonder your brake is shot!

It's not like I ride the brake all the way through the corner, I just use it to overcome the slight jolt that -might- occur when the chain comes under tension. I don't "need" it in the sense that I just open the gas all the way, it just makes everything go a little bit smoother. After the initial application I get off the brake.

Start at 13:24 here:

Goes through 4:45 here:

I watched the complete thing last month or so.
Interesting, but that acting. Omg. So crap. Much cringe. Wow.


I *know* the Tiger has more low end torque than that. You should be able to just creep forward in traffic just a touch off idle with the clutch, brake and throttle - not screaming at 3000rpm.

Well, if you watch the video below near the end in the slow section you'll see I'm running about 2-2,500rpm. I don't want to be anywhere near idle tbh. At a previous gymkhana I was doing a similar exercise, just running on clutch and brake (with the Hornet). I stalled about half-way through and nearly dropped the bike, never again.

In the rest of the video before that though I'm pretty much riding the rear brake all the way through, except when I'm accelerating and the section with the barrels, that's the only time I'm running on idle.

 
It's not like I ride the brake all the way through the corner, I just use it to overcome the slight jolt that -might- occur when the chain comes under tension. I don't "need" it in the sense that I just open the gas all the way, it just makes everything go a little bit smoother. After the initial application I get off the brake.

You shouldn't be applying the brake at all for that. This is what throttle modulation and 'rolling on the throttle' is for.

Well, if you watch the video below near the end in the slow section you'll see I'm running about 2-2,500rpm. I don't want to be anywhere near idle tbh. At a previous gymkhana I was doing a similar exercise, just running on clutch and brake (with the Hornet). I stalled about half-way through and nearly dropped the bike, never again.

In the rest of the video before that though I'm pretty much riding the rear brake all the way through, except when I'm accelerating and the section with the barrels, that's the only time I'm running on idle.


Gymkhana is not real street riding and many things do not transfer to the street from that sport. Further, the thing is that the Hornet 600 doesn't have the low end torque to do that sort of thing near idle. Bikes like your 800 and my Hornet 900 *do*. There's no need to get the engine way off idle like that with these bikes.

Here is a commentary from a professional race rider and instructor on the power delivery disparity between the 599/Hornet 600/etc mill and something like the Hornet 900 or your Tiger 800:

The 599 handles better in regards to being closer to an actual sportbike, but you really gotta keep it spinning to feel any form of propulsion underneath of you. It's like work to ride it at an aggressive pace, but it is still fun and the ergonomics kinda remind you that there is a sportbike somewhere in its ancestry.

The 919 pulls like a tractor with the most usable torque curve in the history of streetbikes, but doesn't really feel like a sportbike at all. The riding position is very comfy and the bike is extremely easy to ride up to about 75% then it starts getting a little tricky, but still capable as long as you trust it.

You are not playing to your bike's strengths and are damaging it instead.

Tiger 800:
triumph-tiger-800-dyno-599x375.jpg


You make most of your torque by 2000. You're not getting much any benefit by revving to 3000 and holding it back by the brakes and you're wearing out parts needlessly.

Your former 600:
honda_cb600f_hornet_partial_slip_on_.jpg


See how it basically makes nothing by 3K? Yeah, you've gotten into a bad habit because of it.

Seriously, go out and try it in an empty parking lot. You might be amazed by the low end torque.
 
That's a good point I suppose, I hadn't looked at it that way yet. And I will try it out, but probably in a few months when the weather clears up, winter is starting to set in and it's getting bloody cold outside. :(
In other news, I picked up and fitted a new set of pads today. Unfortunately my parts dealer was closed, so I ended up buying the pads from my Triumph dealer. A bit more expensive than I'd wanted, but at least I was able to pick up an original set of Nissin pads, which had the correct part number on them which I will keep around so I know which ones to get for the future.
As for the calliper, the piston moves in and out quite nicely and the slide pins slide very smooth, so all seems well.
 
Make sure you clean all the slide pins and the piston's exposed part before pushing it back in, you'll save yourself work later.
 
I did, cleaned both with brake cleaner. Sprayed some WD40 on the piston before pushing it back in. (This is what the dealer recommended)
Applied silicone grease liberally on the slide pin and a dab of copper grease on the brake pads (where they touch the caliper and retaining spring) and the retaining pin.
 
So, I'm doing some maintenance on the Hornet to get it ready for the next gymkhana season. I've had a suspicion for a while now that the engine is down on power (which I assumed would be mostly solved by synching the carbs) so I started with checking the valve clearances (necessary for carb synching) and decided to do a compression test while I'm at it.
Valve clearances are mostly fine, one intake valve has a little too much clearance, but that shouldn't have any detrimental effects, will solve this later.

So, the compression test didn't go great, here's why:

NEGGFag.png


I'm supposed to see between 185-191PSI, but I only get 150PSI on one cilinder, the others are way below that.
After adding some oil to the cilinders to determine if the pistons might be the cause I notice that cilinders #2-4 all have increased compression values, whereas cilinder #1 stays the same, although still 50PSI below what I should see.

Also, this is what happened after I added oil to each cilinder:

YdXQWxG.jpg


Ya6tAe0.jpg


Almost immediately after adding a little oil it started seeping on the exhaust side on all 4 cilinders, although it didn't seem to come from the exhaust ports themselves.

Some conclusions I can draw from this:
- Cilinder #1 I would consider to be "known good". In both tests it shows the same value so unlikely to be caused by a worn cilinder/faulty piston rings. Though still below expected value.
- Cilinders #2-4 might suffer from reduced compression due to worn cilinder/faulty piston rings, although in both tests all cilinders are well below expected values.
- Because all cilinders are below expected values and due to the oil seeping from the near the cilinder head I would suspect a faulty head gasket.


Does my reasoning make sense? Or am I completely missing the mark/overlooking something?
Anything else I can do to determine the cause before resorting to taking the cilinder head off?
Or could all this just be considered normal for an 18 year old bike?
 
Yeah, you are missing something. Cylinder #1 has a problem that may be a crack in the head, piston, or a bad valve. Whenever you add oil to a cylinder the test pressure will go up, just not always a lot. When it goes up a lot, it indicates a ring problem.

With oil coming out up top, I think it is time for a cylinder leakage test to track down the problem.



* are you sure that is oil and not coolant?
 
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* are you sure that is oil and not coolant?

It never leaked a drip of oil. Started dripping oil almost as soon as I had poured it in. At first I thought I'd spilled some, until I noticed it came from underneath the exhaust headers.
 
The oil leakage is spillage that didn't get down the spark plug holes into the combustion chamber/cylinder. The oil trails are coming from the drain holes for the plug wells.

- - - Updated - - -

Cylinder 3 has a pretty serious ring problem, cylinder 1 has a valve problem or something equally bad. 4 has a moderate ring problem and 2 is probably just badly worn.
 
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