Ownership Verified: '77 Zastava 101 "The Flying Shite"

I don't see the T?V business as bleak as the others. Especially if one has some time and a workshop at hand, there's lots of wiggle room with inspectors, especially as each inspector has the authority to overrule another. The only reason why I am being conservative with mods on Lucille is because I don't have time or money to try different T?V guys and change details multiple times.
From Gobi's often-linked GAZ Pobeda hot rod to Opel Kadett Cs running the V6 engine from an Omega/Calibra, there's a myriad of cars running around that should not be running around by the letter of the law, most of them even on historic plates.
I'd venture with the right inspector you can get anything road-legal on the Zastava that you can prove to having been deemed legal on the Fiat 128. Look at these guys, for example.
 
Dr_Grip said:
From Gobi's often-linked GAZ Pobeda hot rod to Opel Kadett Cs running the V6 engine from an Omega/Calibra, there's a myriad of cars running around that should not be running around by the letter of the law, most of them even on historic plates.
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I have a personal problem with the last part because built customs are by definition not part of automotive history. In my country the issue is even worse because the terminology is different. We have museoautos (museum vehicle) instead of "historic" and non-original cars certainly do not belong in a museum (ignoring notable uniques here for simplicity). Even "tuned" or very slightly riced cars should not be museum/historic cars as far as I'm concerned. In principle using the museum/historic car registry for lower running costs is nothing more than grossly abusing the system for financial benefit.

This is why I'm a massive proponent of a "hobbyist car" registry which would be separate from the museum/historic registry. Different benefits maybe, whatever, but at least it wouldn't dilute the meaning of museum/historic status.
 
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Beni said:
If anyone has nothing to do in the week from September 14 to 21...I'll have some time off...come by and help! ;)
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I have no GF for three weeks in September, I am thinking that I could come from the evening of the 19th until some time on the 21st :D Is there a place to sleep?
 
Those are the three days that I sadly can't be there, I'm picking up the Swift/visiting Hamburg from the 19th to the 20th and be away for my grandmother's birthday on 21st...crap.

The weekend before I'll only be there on Sunday, the weekend after I'll be in London friday till monday.


:(

First weekend in October then?
 
Jupix said:
In principle using the museum/historic car registry for lower running costs is nothing more than grossly abusing the system for financial benefit.
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An overly dramatic choice of words ;) Every single car in the museum/historic registry is there for lower running costs (and other benefits). That is the reward for keeping the car in good original shape.

Collecting arbitrary import car tax is the gross abuse of the system. Collecting road tax per vehicle instead of per person is also a gross abuse of the system. Using the the benefits of the museum registry for the very purpose it was designed is just fine, I'd say.

As far as originality goes, I can see your point, but don't feel as strongly about it. Period correct mods are probably ok by me.
 
MXM said:
Every single car in the museum/historic registry is there for lower running costs (and other benefits). That is the reward for keeping the car in good original shape.
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WTF. That is the most selfish car-related thing I've ever heard.

Dude, the purpose of having historic cars is to preserve automotive cultural heritage. In other words to not lose items of automotive history to rust and wear. By owning your own you are doing the society of auto enthusiasts and engineers an altruistic service. Your reward is supposed to be the joy of finding the perfect car, or the perfect project, and making it a perfect example of something that was made by a notable company or person long ago. So the process. Not money!

Edit: and contrary to what you believe, a significant portion of historic car owners actually go through the process for the altruistic purpose and not the money. Those people can usually be found in classic car heavy marque clubs where even stuff like old buses or utility vehicles and the like are preserved purely to preserve that bit of automotive history.

To me building a custom and getting historic status for the money is roughly equivalent to buying an 1800s boat project for the sole purpose of extracting historic-fund money for the build. Only the scale is different.

Edit again: don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be hostile. But I do feel pretty strongly about it because auto law is just rotten. The way historics are currently handled is just another avenue for gaming the system. I feel bad because I want the best for people who do the museum car thing for the good reasons.
 
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i'd always assume the money saved for a historic registration just gets blown on keeping the car in presentable and original condition... many many times over. so maybe it acts as compensation for the people who take it upon themselves to do these things, but really, the money and time they spend on their cars will never be made up for by that.

i have a friend with an old beetle on H-plates whose only concern at the moment (for lack of money or whatever, because student) is keeping the car running. and that in itself easily consumes more money than he'd pay in taxes anyway. no idea about the insurance, i admit, but i can't think he'll end up saving money over owning a newer car...
 
Jupix said:
Your reward is supposed to be the joy of finding the perfect car, or the perfect project, and making it a perfect example of something that was made by a notable company or person long ago. So the process.
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Naturally, and it is.

Jupix said:
Not money!
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Ha, you practically never gain any value by running a classic anyway. Museum registry gives you a small relief. I find it naiive to think people limit themselves wilfully to 30 running days a year without any regard of benefits (which aren't just financial).

Jupix said:
Edit: and contrary to what you believe, a significant portion of historic car owners actually go through the process for the altruistic purpose and not the money. Those people can usually be found in classic car heavy marque clubs where even stuff like old buses or utility vehicles and the like are preserved purely to preserve that bit of automotive history.
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I see the museum registry as encouragement to preserve automotive history. Period modifications are a part of the history, in my view. It's hard to say where I draw the line, but certainly not at strictly how the car left the factory.

But since you already formed an opinion about what I believe, we should drop this discussion.

Jupix said:
Edit again: don't get me wrong, I don't mean to be hostile. But I do feel pretty strongly about it because auto law is just rotten. The way historics are currently handled is just another avenue for gaming the system. I feel bad because I want the best for people who do the museum car thing for the good reasons.
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Well.... Firstly, if you don't mean to be hostile, just re-read your message twice before posting. But on the topic, if the result of gaming the system are more cars on the road in excellent original shape, I really don't care about the motive. The registry really encourages also "normal" cars to be preserved, not the top models, not the most significant ones, but the cars which would normally be crushed already. And that's awesome.
 
Jupix said:
I have a personal problem with the last part because built customs are by definition not part of automotive history. In my country the issue is even worse because the terminology is different. We have museoautos (museum vehicle) instead of "historic" and non-original cars certainly do not belong in a museum (ignoring notable uniques here for simplicity). Even "tuned" or very slightly riced cars should not be museum/historic cars as far as I'm concerned. In principle using the museum/historic car registry for lower running costs is nothing more than grossly abusing the system for financial benefit.

This is why I'm a massive proponent of a "hobbyist car" registry which would be separate from the museum/historic registry. Different benefits maybe, whatever, but at least it wouldn't dilute the meaning of museum/historic status.
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What about cars with period correct mods (like a W126 with a DOHC M117 and AMG body kit)?
 
ScarFace88 said:
What about cars with period correct mods (like a W126 with a DOHC M117 and AMG body kit)?
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Hobbyist car yes, museum car no. Unless it has an AMG VIN plate.

Just like a Zastava with a period performance engine from another car. Hobbyist car yes, museum car no. Because historic value does not exist. But that's just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.
 
Yeah, in my opinion there should be a differentation for hobbyist car / museum car with for example insurance benefits for both, compared to a regular, non-hobby car that's run 365 days a year.
 
A museum car also needs to be in a perfect condition. A hobby car is obviously being used so even the condition can vary.
 
I don't know, it should still be pretty strict. It's just that the car wouldn't necessarily be 100% the way it rolled off the factory line / dealer floor, as seems to be the case with museum-spec cars.
 
There's a small group of people lobbying for this sort of category rubbish to be brought into the UK, which would mean modified cars would loose their tax free status, and probably even their black numberplates.

Currently we have it great, any car before 1974 (rolls forward each year), is tax free. Modify the hell out of whatever you want, as long as it's MOT legal. I'm really against anything which leaves us in a similar situation to Germany, it's not something anyone should wish for when we have the current system that benefits so many.
 
Can we get a Zastava t-shirt? I'd buy one...


"I drove the Zastava!" would also be funny. :lol:
 
Redliner said:
"I drove the Zastava!" would also be funny. :lol:
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"I sat in the back of the Zastava on the N?rburgring with no seatbelts!"
 
public said:
For Beni and Adrian: My Other Car is a Zastava
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Epic bumper sticker is epic.

*Must buy more FIAT licenses before giving rep to public again*
 
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