Ownership Verified: rickhamilton620's sorta big red box! - 1995 Jeep Cherokee Sport

[rickhamilton620]

Edit. the spreadsheet is up: http://tinyurl.com/fgrepairsheet

It's editable if anyone feels like stuff should be added, wants to comment, w/e. I only have the repair pal estimate in there just for comparison purposes...I'm going to try to do as much myself as I can as a learning experience.

Re: 4wd. If the Jeep is a part time system with a transfer case that locks the front axle to the driveshaft and without a centre diff, you have to be pretty careful with when and how you use it. You must only use it in low traction situations because the system needs wheel slip in order to not break anything. There are also usually speed limits when 4wd is engaged. I don't think I'd go over 80km/h really. Also while the car is capable of shifting into 4wd on the fly at pretty decent speeds, I still slow down and make sure the front wheels are straight before I do.

You will hear some clunks as things engage but they shouldn't really keep making those noises. Maybe check that the transfer case and front diff are properly topped up and the oil is ok in them. That's probsbly something I'd change anyway.

It is part time. I need to get a owners manual from eBay - the 4wd information sticker on the sunvisor didnt give any speed restrictions as far as when to shift into or out of 4H but I did figure there was one and tried to do it while going relatively slowly.

The road was wet and there was some snow cover.

I'll have to check both of those - I've placed them on the spreadsheet.

Cleaning the TB/IAC did fuck all to my problems, but I blame that on Renix at this point. It was nasty how much carbon was on there. Clean that shit, Rick. Takes maybe an hour.

Yes. It's got no center diff. You need to have wheel slip. I used mine up to around 100kph but not sure if I'd do that with a car I actually care about.

The AW4/NP242 is a generally stout combination for general driving. I'd check to see if you have records of fluid changes for them; I've heard horror stories about changing the TC fluid after many years of no maintenance it causing the TC to grenade. Not sure how true or false that might be.

An hour's not bad at all. I am trying to recall if changing the fluid was something that he mentioned - I'll need to look in the glove box and see if there's documentation.

Hmm...that doesn't sound good. Hopefully it has been changed on the regular.

 

[JakeRadden]

Shifting into 4H at speed:

I did it once at 35mph. Almost felt like I was grinding a manual while I tried to pull the TC lever into 4H. Do not recommend.

As a note, get a set of Torx bits if you don't have them. If I recall correctly the IAC was held in with T20s.

Any idea the last time the shocks/struts were changed? I did my fronts and it made a huge difference in ride quality. Pretty sure the ones I took out were the 25-yo originals.

Also the RepairPal prices seem way too high. I did plugs/cap/rotor/wires all told for like $100.

 

[CrzRsn]

I shift mine into 4H up to 45mph on a level straight road just before hitting dirt fine with no grinding or anything.

 

[thevictor390]

My dad's Jeep ('98 Wrangler) has a 4WD system I have never quite figured out. You have to be moving to engage it but not fast, and sometimes it just doesn't. I tried 4-low once and almost stranded myself trying to get back out of it (everything just grinded).

Other 4WD vehicles I've used (sister's Suzuki Vitara, my Blizzard) can engage from a standstill and I haven't had any such issues

 

[rickhamilton620]

Shifting into 4H at speed:

I did it once at 35mph. Almost felt like I was grinding a manual while I tried to pull the TC lever into 4H. Do not recommend.

As a note, get a set of Torx bits if you don't have them. If I recall correctly the IAC was held in with T20s.

Any idea the last time the shocks/struts were changed? I did my fronts and it made a huge difference in ride quality. Pretty sure the ones I took out were the 25-yo originals.

Also the RepairPal prices seem way too high. I did plugs/cap/rotor/wires all told for like $100.

I didn't notice any grinding when moving mine into 4H, it just moved back easily and the part-time light came on. I felt a difference in terms of driving feel so I'm sure something happened, at least I hope. :lol:

Those are something that EyeMWing said I should consider changing soon. I forgot about that. Will add to the list.

RepairPal estimates represent est. cost if i were to have a local mechanic buy the part and do the work.

I shift mine into 4H up to 45mph on a level straight road just before hitting dirt fine with no grinding or anything.

same, I definitely wasn't going 45 mph though, more like 25?

 

[93Flareside]

Doesn't the book say that 35mph is your max speed for 4WD? after that you should be in 2WD mode?

 

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Ok ok fine, factory knob will be ordered. :lol: You will see that guy somewhere else on the truck, just have to find a spot.

I'll start creating a spreadsheet of stuff I'll need to do. This will not only keep me on track but hopefully I'll feel a greater sense of satisfaction not only for doing (hopefully) a lot of the work myself but also the act of crossing it off of a list.

When you say belt, does the car have a timing belt? or are you referring to other belts on the car.

The CPS was something I also came across during googling. It'll be added to the list of things to change.

I'll go to Lowes tomorrow and check out that tool set...i predict i'll be giving it a lot of use. I also need to find a place other than a inclined muddy lawn (but closer than EyeMWing - ya know...just in case I can't make it there for whatever reason) to do any under car stuff on - the lot across from my house would be perfect, but they're a fire department so chances are, like any business parking lot, I'd be shooed away.

Edit: bumper - I'll look into purchasing it as well.

A junkyard shift knob should be super cheap instead of ordering a new one.

The belt is just an accessory drive belt for your water pump, power steering, A/C and alternator. Your engine has a timing chain that will last pretty much forever.

CPS is a possibility I wouldn't rule out, but on ZJs at least it tends to be a go/no go thing rather than a cause of idle problems. Worth a change if nothing else seems to be working though - Mopar sensor only, as mentioned.

I also totally agree that a ignition tune-up (plugs, wires, cap, rotor) is a good idea. I happen to like NGK plugs and wires but Champion plugs are also good. Just get the basic copper plugs, your PCM will likely not play nicely with the platinum/iridium/unobtanium stuff. I've had bad experiences with Champion plug wires so I'd say stick with NGK there.


I am contractually obliged to remind you that for the love of god DON'T LOSE YOUR SCREWDRIVER BIT WHILE INSTALLING THE IAC BOLTS.
(Probably not a concern on the 4.0L, but flashbacks, man.)

 

[EyeMWing]

I added some Rockauto parts prices. They're a bit low because shipping, but none of that stuff is particularly heavy (except the shocks) and most of it you can get slightly cheaper than the +shipping cost locally anyway.

Observe, the wonders of doing work yourself

 

[rickhamilton620]

Doesn't the book say that 35mph is your max speed for 4WD? after that you should be in 2WD mode?

I don't have a manual. All I had to go on was the "Selec-Trac Transfer Case Information" sticker on the sunvisor. It made no indication about speed limitations.

A junkyard shift knob should be super cheap instead of ordering a new one.

The belt is just an accessory drive belt for your water pump, power steering, A/C and alternator. Your engine has a timing chain that will last pretty much forever.

CPS is a possibility I wouldn't rule out, but on ZJs at least it tends to be a go/no go thing rather than a cause of idle problems. Worth a change if nothing else seems to be working though - Mopar sensor only, as mentioned.

I also totally agree that a ignition tune-up (plugs, wires, cap, rotor) is a good idea. I happen to like NGK plugs and wires but Champion plugs are also good. Just get the basic copper plugs, your PCM will likely not play nicely with the platinum/iridium/unobtanium stuff. I've had bad experiences with Champion plug wires so I'd say stick with NGK there.


I am contractually obliged to remind you that for the love of god DON'T LOSE YOUR SCREWDRIVER BIT WHILE INSTALLING THE IAC BOLTS.
(Probably not a concern on the 4.0L, but flashbacks, man.)

Yeah I guess I should have used the word "obtained" - I'll have to stop by a junkyard and look around.

Phew, that's good to know. I know it's still worth examining closely but the fact that I don't need to worry about expensive timing belt changes is a relief.

I'll definitely try the other things (tune-up) first, then the CPS.

I added some Rockauto parts prices. They're a bit low because shipping, but none of that stuff is particularly heavy (except the shocks) and most of it you can get slightly cheaper than the +shipping cost locally anyway.

Observe, the wonders of doing work yourself

Thank ya! I'll try not to hit anything!

 

[Spectre]

It was snowing and laying on the ground today so I tried 4wd. I activated it at a pretty low speed, maybe 25 mph or so. The light came on and things seemed to go ok until I heard/felt a "pop". I figured maybe it was something engaging but when I heard it again a few minutes later, I wen't back to 2wd.

You have a New Process 231 transfer case in that Jeep (as indicated by the 2HI, 4HI, N, 4LO settings.) The 231 is *not* to be used in 4WD at any significant speed on dry pavement or you will get binding and popping, which isn't good for anything in the driveline - but especially the U-joints and the transfer case itself. The 231 doesn't have a differential in it and in either 4WD mode the driveshafts are locked together. You can shift on the fly just fine, but it just can't be used in 4WD on a dry, no-slip pavement.

The 'full-time' 4WD T-case that went in those trucks was the NP242, which did have a differential and had settings of 2HI, 4 full-time, 4 part-time, N, 4LO. That could be driven in 4 Full-time on dry pavement without a problem.

Either case can technically be shifted on the fly at 'any legal speed' of the time, so figure 55mph tops.

You might want to secure this, it's a PDF copy of the parts manual: http://oljeep.com/parts_man/94j.pdf

Ok ok fine, factory knob will be ordered. :lol: You will see that guy somewhere else on the truck, just have to find a spot.

A junkyard knob (as others mentioned) or an aftermarket knob would be fine as well.

When you say belt, does the car have a timing belt? or are you referring to other belts on the car.

It definitely doesn't have a timing belt, I am referring to the serpentine belt on the front of the engine that drives the power steering pump, alternator, water pump, etc., etc.

I'll go to Lowes tomorrow and check out that tool set...i predict i'll be giving it a lot of use. I also need to find a place other than a inclined muddy lawn (but closer than EyeMWing - ya know...just in case I can't make it there for whatever reason) to do any under car stuff on - the lot across from my house would be perfect, but they're a fire department so chances are, like any business parking lot, I'd be shooed away.

Edit: bumper - I'll look into purchasing it as well.

Nice thing about a truck - there's a lot of things you can work on and replace without having to jack it up. Get some wheel chocks and you can probably work on most stuff just fine.

There are also RockAuto discount codes floating around that knock 5% off your order and that usually takes care of much of the shipping cost.

- - - Updated - - -

Doesn't the book say that 35mph is your max speed for 4WD? after that you should be in 2WD mode?

The manual actually says "at any legal speed."

- - - Updated - - -

The AW4/NP242 is a generally stout combination for general driving. I'd check to see if you have records of fluid changes for them; I've heard horror stories about changing the TC fluid after many years of no maintenance it causing the TC to grenade. Not sure how true or false that might be.

He's got the AX15/NP231 combo. Unless it has a diff, especially the viscous type, changing the transfer case's fluid can't cause it to grenade.

- - - Updated - - -

Cleaning the TB/IAC did fuck all to my problems, but I blame that on Renix at this point.

http://jeep.avtograd.ru/cherokee/injection/89jeepefi.pdf <-- Renix specific service and tech manual.

- - - Updated - - -

Rick: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Jeep-C...-OE-/360469975400?hash=item53edaf5168&vxp=mtr

Also, this errata sheet might be useful:

 

[JakeRadden]

Yeah, typo on my part, meant NP231. Also forgot it was a stick.

I guess I should probably change mine then :lol:

I've mostly given up on getting the Cherokee to run right. I'm about 70% of the way to ordering a 2015 Edge, so at this point it's a bit pointless. It served its duty. Got me to and fro over this winter for $500.

 

[EyeMWing]

My Dakota also has the NP231. Very much confirmed that it is NOT HAPPY with pavement. Ten feet in 2LO is a bad idea in the opinion of my beater truck.

Wingus & Dingus Motorsport will be open for (monkey) business on Sunday if you want to come put it on the lift/poke around/do unsafe things/generally break things (though I have to do some lift maintenance and safety checks following a shop flood first). Let me know if you're interested and I'll make sure there's a hole in the schedule between all my dumb projects.

JakeRadden: I'll give you $400 for it.

 

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Spectre already linked you to the parts guide, but if you don't have a copy of the factory service manual, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

 

[AiR]

Good choice Rick, congratulations! Fix the headliner!

 

[rickhamilton620]

Good choice Rick, congratulations! Fix the headliner!

I may seriously go with Lego-esque fabric..

I'll wait until the other more important stuff (mechanical) is done though.

You have a New Process 231 transfer case in that Jeep (as indicated by the 2HI, 4HI, N, 4LO settings.) The 231 is *not* to be used in 4WD at any significant speed on dry pavement or you will get binding and popping, which isn't good for anything in the driveline - but especially the U-joints and the transfer case itself. The 231 doesn't have a differential in it and in either 4WD mode the driveshafts are locked together. You can shift on the fly just fine, but it just can't be used in 4WD on a dry, no-slip pavement.

The 'full-time' 4WD T-case that went in those trucks was the NP242, which did have a differential and had settings of 2HI, 4 full-time, 4 part-time, N, 4LO. That could be driven in 4 Full-time on dry pavement without a problem.

Either case can technically be shifted on the fly at 'any legal speed' of the time, so figure 55mph tops.

You might want to secure this, it's a PDF copy of the parts manual: http://oljeep.com/parts_man/94j.pdf

A junkyard knob (as others mentioned) or an aftermarket knob would be fine as well.

It definitely doesn't have a timing belt, I am referring to the serpentine belt on the front of the engine that drives the power steering pump, alternator, water pump, etc., etc.

Nice thing about a truck - there's a lot of things you can work on and replace without having to jack it up. Get some wheel chocks and you can probably work on most stuff just fine.

There are also RockAuto discount codes floating around that knock 5% off your order and that usually takes care of much of the shipping cost.

Rick: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Jeep-C...-OE-/360469975400?hash=item53edaf5168&vxp=mtr

Also, this errata sheet might be useful:

At least to me, the ground was decidedly wet, maybe not wet enough though?

I've downloaded the parts manual, thanks Spectre!

Wheel chocks will be added to "the spreadsheet." I'll do some promo code googling soon.

I have a 95 so I'll grab the manual for that year.

My Dakota also has the NP231. Very much confirmed that it is NOT HAPPY with pavement. Ten feet in 2LO is a bad idea in the opinion of my beater truck.

Wingus & Dingus Motorsport will be open for (monkey) business on Sunday if you want to come put it on the lift/poke around/do unsafe things/generally break things (though I have to do some lift maintenance and safety checks following a shop flood first). Let me know if you're interested and I'll make sure there's a hole in the schedule between all my dumb projects.

So maybe I should keep it in 2wd unless the road is covered in snow/slush then? I drove home fine in 2wd.

I might take you up on it so I can cut my teeth on getting the coolant out and stuff. Now I'm kinda regretting helping my friend move tomorrow morning haha.

You give me a window on Sunday, what I need to buy, and your preferred form of repayment, and I'll be there.

Spectre already linked you to the parts guide, but if you don't have a copy of the factory service manual, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

Will do! And thanks so much!

 

[Hbriz]

So maybe I should keep it in 2wd unless the road is covered in snow/slush then? I drove home fine in 2wd.

Very much so. If there is too much traction you'll get driveline wind up and eventually break something - probsbly explode the transfer case. If there is enough traction in 2wd, stick to 2wd. It's one of the downsides of a part time 4wd system. Pretty much only use it if you'll get stuck in 2wd, obviously there's a bit of leeway with when you use it but basically it's there for when you need it but not all the time.

 

[Perc]

Yeah, it's not uncommon to blow front hubs and other things if you keep it in 4WD all the time. Especially if your tires aren't perfectly evenly worn on all four corners. It's fine on snow, though.

 

[EyeMWing]

Dear Jeep: WHY IS THE RADIATOR FILL ON THE SAME SIDE AS THE LOWER HOSE WHAT WERE YOU THINKING

No wonder nobody can get the things flushed right, it's a total pain to get water everywhere it needs to go.
Also: Heater control valve? Seems to have been deleted.

 

[Spectre]

Dear Jeep: WHY IS THE RADIATOR FILL ON THE SAME SIDE AS THE LOWER HOSE WHAT WERE YOU THINKING

No wonder nobody can get the things flushed right, it's a total pain to get water everywhere it needs to go.
Also: Heater control valve? Seems to have been deleted.

Because it was originally going to have the 4.2L I6 drivetrain out of the CJ, complete with the downflow radiator the CJ had at the time. When they realized that that engine wasn't going to be an option, they hastily converted to a crossflow design needed for the engines they ended up using - the 2.5 I4 and such. However, they didn't have the money to change the jigs used to assemble the car...

Someone put couplers in place of the heater control valve?

 

[EyeMWing]

Because it was originally going to have the 4.2L I6 drivetrain out of the CJ, complete with the downflow radiator the CJ had at the time. When they realized that that engine wasn't going to be an option, they hastily converted to a crossflow design needed for the engines they ended up using - the 2.5 I4 and such. However, they didn't have the money to change the jigs used to assemble the car...

Someone put couplers in place of the heater control valve?

Yup. So the heater core is always in-loop. Looks like it can be undone, but I'm torn between "Unneeded complexity deleted! Job done!" and "Why the hell would you delete a $10 service part? And use $10 worth of couplers and hose clamps to do it."

Basically the only difference I can see it making is:
1) Vent mode on the HVAC panel won't work as intended
2) Full-cold won't be full-cold because it'll have some element of heater to it.