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    McDonald's manager in hot oil attack

    A MAN has suffered serious burns to his face, chest and arms after the manager of McDonald's at King Cross allegedly threw hot oil in his face.
    Kings Cross police are yet to charge the manager with any offence, and are still investigating whether the manager was acting in self-defence, the Wentworth Courier reported.
    At about 3.30am on Friday February 10, the victim was ordering food with a friend at McDonald’s on Darlinghurst Rd.
    Police say the victim was moderately affected by alcohol when he became involved in a verbal argument with the McDonald’s manager.
    The victim is alleged to have swore at the manager and threatened to kill him, when the manager allegedly replied, "If you come over the counter, I’ll throw oil on you".
    The victim then jumped the counter which is when the manager has thrown the oil directly at the man’s face.
    The oil caused significant and serious burns to the victim’s face, chest, torso and both arms.
    The victim was taken to St Vincent’s Hospital then transferred to the Burns Unit at Concord Hospital.
    Police received statements from a number of witnesses and are reviewing CCTV footage of the incident.


    Read more: McDonald's manager in hot oil attack | News.com.au
    Now I will start with some basic Australian Law here, It's not as easy as U.S self defense, There was a recent case here where a mans house was broken into by armed robbers and in a struggle the homeowner shot the robber with the robbers gun and killed him, he was charged by police and was ending up in the courts last I heard. It can be very hard to prove reasonable force in self defense here so it shall be interesting to see how this unfolds.

    Does everyone feel this sort of self defence by the Manager is warranted however?



    #2
    If he would of hit him with a hot fryer tray he would be within his rights. The hot oil is a bit excessive.
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      #3
      Originally posted by GRtak View Post
      If he would of hit him with a hot fryer tray he would be within his rights. The hot oil is a bit excessive.
      Agreed. It's not like the man had a weapon from what I can tell.
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        #4
        I'll mention the area isnt exactly known for its niceness, it gets fairly rough there in a morning, lots of drunken fights, glassings etc


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          #5
          I'm sorry but, if you warn someone to not come any closer and they don't listen, you should do whatever means necessary to protect yourself. Your mind panics in those kind of situations so what if oil was a bit excessive. The guy didn't listen.
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            #6
            Originally posted by 93Flareside View Post
            I'm sorry but, if you warn someone to not come any closer and they don't listen, you should do whatever means necessary to protect yourself. Your mind panics in those kind of situations so what if oil was a bit excessive. The guy didn't listen.
            I'm kind of in that camp. We don't know the full story (and the story we have refers to someone who "drunk" as being "moderately affected by alcohol") but I don't have much sympathy at this point.
            There is no such thing as a stupid question.* *but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

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              #7
              I think if he warned him, then yeah...it's justifiable. Especially if the guy threatened to kill him, doesn't really matter if he had a weapon or not.

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                #8
                Theres no such thing as "Moderately affected by alcohol" in kings Cross, trust me its Incredibly drugged or drunk and is about the most dangerous place in Sydney in terms of crimes such as Assault.


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                  #9
                  The guy was warned, I'd say he got what was coming to him.

                  Kings Cross is the worst place in the world.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by NecroJoe View Post
                    I'm kind of in that camp. We don't know the full story (and the story we have refers to someone who "drunk" as being "moderately affected by alcohol") but I don't have much sympathy at this point.

                    Neither do I, but the fryer tray upside the head would have made a pretty strong statement, and the oil was a bit excessive.
                    "I don't care who does the electing, so long as I get to do the nominating" -Boss Tweed

                    "No man's life, liberty or happiness are safe while Congress is in session,"- Mark Twain

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by GRtak View Post
                      Neither do I, but the fryer tray upside the head would have made a pretty strong statement, and the oil was a bit excessive.
                      Seconded. Self-defense, no matter how bad the neighborhood, has to be proportionate to the threat received. You can't shoot a guy to escape a fist fight, for example. Can you shoot a man who attacks you with a knife? I'd say yes, unless you got other means to fend off the attack.

                      Can you pour hot oil over a drunken, possibly drugged, but unarmed troublemaker? Given the amount of other, less permanently scarring kitchen appliances available for a successful self-defense, I'd say no, that's excessive. While both the threat received and the prior warning given should clearly count as mitigating circumstances, some kind of punishment is due.
                      Battered and weary after the craziness of the 1960s, the self-righteousness of the 1970s and the greed of the 1980s, I want to go home again, oh, so desperately - home to that land of drive-in restaurants and Chevy Bel-Airs, making out and rock 'n' roll and drag races and Studebakers, Elvis and James Dean and black leather jackets. Not that I ever owned a black leather jacket.
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                        #12
                        Did the manager have X-ray vision to know the other person was unarmed at the time?.

                        If someone threatened to kill you then advanced towards you would you not grab the best weapon sitting in your vicinity or stand there going "hmm what can i use against this person who is attacking me that will successfully defend me while still be considered reasonable force"


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                          #13
                          My contribution to this thread:

                          Does the cooked man now meet McDonalds food standards to be served in a bun?





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                            #14
                            Originally posted by TroyWK View Post
                            Did the manager have X-ray vision to know the other person was unarmed at the time?.

                            If someone threatened to kill you then advanced towards you would you not grab the best weapon sitting in your vicinity or stand there going "hmm what can i use against this person who is attacking me that will successfully defend me while still be considered reasonable force"
                            There's a difference between grabbing the next-best weapon and a premeditated hot oil bath. The manager, as proven by his counter-threat, planned to use the hot oil, it was not simply the next best thing available.

                            But maybe that's just my European hippie-ness speaking.
                            Battered and weary after the craziness of the 1960s, the self-righteousness of the 1970s and the greed of the 1980s, I want to go home again, oh, so desperately - home to that land of drive-in restaurants and Chevy Bel-Airs, making out and rock 'n' roll and drag races and Studebakers, Elvis and James Dean and black leather jackets. Not that I ever owned a black leather jacket.
                            (Roger Ebert)

                            |

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by TroyWK View Post
                              Did the manager have X-ray vision to know the other person was unarmed at the time?.

                              If someone threatened to kill you then advanced towards you would you not grab the best weapon sitting in your vicinity or stand there going "hmm what can i use against this person who is attacking me that will successfully defend me while still be considered reasonable force"
                              Actually I sorta want to retract my last post a little because without knowing any details of the incident apart from what's written above, I've thought about it a little more and wouldnt it be quite difficult to throw hot oil over someone? I mean, he cant just reach into the vat and grab it with his bare hands, he'd have to go and get a cup or something, and the oil isnt placed at the front of the shop where the counters are anyway, he'd have to grab a cup and then go to the back of the kitchen where presumably all that hot oil stuff and fryers, microwaves, six month old buns etc are located and scoop it out, then go back to the counter to throw it on the aggressive drunk.

                              He probably should've had time as he was doing all that to go 'hang on a minute, what's the outcome of this going to be, maybe I should just whack him over the head with the EFTPOS machine, instead'.

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                                #16
                                Similar event occurred at the McD's down the street from my first apartment...yeah I lived in the ghetto, it's cheaper.

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by 93Flareside View Post
                                  I'm sorry but, if you warn someone to not come any closer and they don't listen, you should do whatever means necessary to protect yourself. Your mind panics in those kind of situations so what if oil was a bit excessive. The guy didn't listen.
                                  Whatever means necessary... does that have an upper limit?
                                  Panic? The manager planned his defence well before there was a phyiscal threat (if there ever was one at all, I wasn't there / don't have the footage).
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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by 93Flareside View Post
                                    I'm sorry but, if you warn someone to not come any closer and they don't listen, you should do whatever means necessary to protect yourself. Your mind panics in those kind of situations so what if oil was a bit excessive. The guy didn't listen.
                                    Originally posted by narf View Post
                                    Whatever means necessary... does that have an upper limit?
                                    Point is that 93Flareside is contradicting himself. By all means one should do whatever is necessary to defend oneself. But not more than necessary. So "being a bit excessive" is morally wrong, or, in other words, no self-defense.
                                    Battered and weary after the craziness of the 1960s, the self-righteousness of the 1970s and the greed of the 1980s, I want to go home again, oh, so desperately - home to that land of drive-in restaurants and Chevy Bel-Airs, making out and rock 'n' roll and drag races and Studebakers, Elvis and James Dean and black leather jackets. Not that I ever owned a black leather jacket.
                                    (Roger Ebert)

                                    |

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                                      #19
                                      Naw, rid the world of the scum. (That's a bit extreme there Cobol74?)

                                      Our Kings Cross is a bit dodgy too. Is it something about the name do you think?

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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Red_Bull View Post
                                        Kings Cross is the worst place in the world.
                                        Get a grip, its not that bad. It may be the most dangerous place in Australia as far as violent crimes go, but it wouldn't even make it onto a list of the most crime-ridden places in the world.


                                        As for this McDonald's manager, it sounds like he didn't do anything at all to try to diffuse the situation before it got out of control. I also see no mention of him trying to contact the police (something a late night manager in the Cross would be more than accustomed to doing). But crucially, he hadn't actually been attacked. You can't claim self-defence while you are striking the first blow. Both the manager and the customer should be charged for their roles in this incident. The manager should also be fired for his handling of the situation. By escalating the confrontation instead of trying to diffuse it, he endangered not only himself, but also the workers under his charge.
                                        Last edited by stiggie; February 13th, 2012, 11:36 AM.

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