Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

[tigger]

In most places it's illegal to knowingly spread lies about anyone...

True. But have you seen some of our campaign commercials? It seems that law is put on hold during election season here.

... than what is the REAL figure?

Who knows? But I find it seriously hard to believe that more will be spent on this trip per day than we spend in Afghanistan each day. Another claim was that the White House was going to rent out something like 800 rooms at the Taj Mahal hotel ... when it has less than 600 rooms for rent. People are just pulling figures out of their ass, it should be on them to back them up.

 

[British_Rover]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2010/11/obamas_india_trip?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/200millionaday I will let the economist make my argument.

SOME people just can't estimate travel costs. President Barack Obama is visiting Asia this week. Conservative bloggers and talk-radio hosts (Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and so on) and tea party darling Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.) claim that his trip is costing taxpayers a staggering $200 million a day. (Some also claim that the Navy is dispatching 34 ships and an aircraft carrier to support the mission. More on that later.) The White House says that's not true. Who's right? Google powers, activate! Here are some excerpts from a?PolitiFact?article debunking the claim:

We think Bachmann and others have a responsibility to back up statistics they cite. And in this case, the backing appears to be one news story, relying on an anonymous state government official in India. People familiar with presidential travel say that estimate is way off, and they question how a government official in India would know anyway. And a report by the independent [Government Accountability Office] backs that up: A trip to India by Clinton, regarded at the time as perhaps the most expensive in history, was estimated to cost $50 million, or $10 million per day. That alone should cause someone to question the $200 million a day figure. In short, we don't see any evidence to back up this statistic. And we rate Bachmann's claim False.
FactCheck.org weighs in, too:

This story has spread rapidly among the president?s critics, but there is simply no evidence to support it. And common sense should lead anyone to doubt it. For example, the entire U.S. war effort in Afghanistan currently costs less than that ? about $5.7 billion per month, according to the Congressional Research Service, or roughly $190 million per day. How could a peaceful state visit cost more than a war?
And here's Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell on the "34 ships and an aircraft carrier" claim:

Morrell told reporters he was making an exception to the practice of not discussing Presidential security details to shoot down the reports. "I will take the liberty this time of dismissing as absolutely absurd this notion that somehow we were deploying 10 percent of the Navy?some 34 ships and an aircraft carrier?in support of the president's trip to Asia," said Morrell at today's Pentagon briefing. "That's just comical. Nothing close to that is being done."
It's sad that someone even has to debunk these ridiculous claims. Any reasonable person who heard the $200 million a day number should realise that it's off by at least an order of magnitude. Even Bill O'Reilly "knows the figure is nuts." But as New York magazine's?perfect headline?explains,?"Republican Anger Over Cost of Obama?s Trip to India Will Not Be Stopped by Facts." Indeed.

Facts do have a well know liberal bias afterall.

 

[GRtak]

Also I find it intriguing that she often repeats the phrase "parallel universe," and right wing pundits also use that phrase, and most of her sources to debunk were other commentators, like herself, who give opinions.
Hey guess what! Both sides are full of s*it. They are there to entertain you, like the Jon Stewart Show, and if you are naive enough to believe political entertainers, I got swampland in Florida to sell to you. And a bridge in New York.

And I still think she is a lesbian vampire.

The sad part is that most peeps that watch these shows think they are really news because they are on news networks/cable channels. I remember when CNN first popped on the cable line up, the first thing I thought was something like:

"There may be 3 or 4 hours worth of news to repeort on an average day. So what are they going to do for the other 20 hours?"

They would be better off with Stewart and Colbert, at least they have a pair of brains between them.

And in the off chance that those numbers are correct, did it suddendly become more expensive to send Obama some place, or are they just trying to make him look bad?

I have no illusion that this type of thing is cheap. But costing more than a war budget? I bet the Generals are throwing a fit.

 

[Cold Fussion]

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/te...dering-microsoft-products-20101102-17aw2.html

Google sues US government for only considering Microsoft products
November 2, 2010

Google has filed suit against the US government claiming the terms for a large Department of the Interior contract favour rival Microsoft.

The lawsuit was filed by Google and Onix Networking, a reseller of Google products, in the US Court of Federal Claims last week.

Google argues that the terms of the bid for an email, calendar and document collaboration system for some 88,000 Interior Department employees implicitly rule out a Google product and favour one from software giant Microsoft.
Advertisement: Story continues below

The company is promoting its internet-based suite of office tools, Google Apps, for the contract over Microsoft's solution.

It said it was told there would be a "full and open competition" for the contract but the bid request "specified that only the Microsoft Business Productivity Online Suite-Federal could be proposed."

Google said it was bringing suit on the grounds "that such specification is unduly restrictive of competition" and in violation of US law.

The internet giant said it was told its product was "not compliant with (Interior Department) security requirements," but that is not the case.

Google announced in September that three million businesses and more than 30 million people are using Google Apps, which are hosted on the internet "cloud" as services on demand.

Google Apps include products or services such as Gmail, Google Calendar and Google Docs and are seen as the Mountain View, California company's challenge to Microsoft's popular Office software.

The Wall Street Journal said the Department of the Interior contract is estimated to be worth $US58 million over five years.

Would set an interesting precedent if they somehow won this case, maybe that Russian aeroplane manufacturer could sue the DoD for not having their bit selected.

 

[Plissken]

Argh, argh, argh.

But she did not present evidence that he was spending not 200 million a day there, in fact the only debunking fact she was able to present was a statement from the Pentagon claiming that the amount of warships sent to India was far less than reported. If she cannot find the exact figure, and right wing pundits are falsely reporting the money figure, than what is the REAL figure?

No. The story is not the figure, the story is the fact that the #1 news channel in America is deliberately spreading lies. The real figure will be small and inconsequential, especially compared to the lies that are being told.

Also I find it intriguing that she often repeats the phrase "parallel universe," and right wing pundits also use that phrase, and most of her sources to debunk were other commentators, like herself, who give opinions.

This is the second way of Right Wing arguing. "Oh, they are all the same." Let us use that logic on you - Kid throws egg at car. Kids gets shot. Some people believe kid should have been shot. You have had eggs in your hand. You were once a kid. Ergo: I can now shoot you.

When two Reps were shown the footage of that guy stomping Lauren Valles head at the Ron Paul rally

"Well, the other side do it"
"Are you going to condemn it?"
"What I am saying is that we have seen violence on the other side too"
"Are you going to condemn it?"
"Are you going to condemn it when it happens at other rallies?"

They were trying to avoid the point by blaming the other side, by doing anything but admit the evidence of their own eyes.

And you have done it now. At no point have you actually said she is wrong. You've called her a lesbian vampire and said "they are all at it", as if that is OK. But you haven't denied that Maddow is right.

Oh

They are there to entertain you, like the Jon Stewart Show, and if you are naive enough to believe political entertainers, I got swampland in Florida to sell to you. And a bridge in New York.

Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck can all be (charitably) described as political entertainers. But Michelle Bachman is a member of the House of Representatives. Is she paid by Fox to be a political entertainer?

 

[nomix]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2010/11/obamas_india_trip?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/200millionaday I will let the economist make my argument.

I'd also like to know how much it cost to move Bush to Afghanistan (and Iraq?) a few times during his presidency. And how much it cost to land him on an aircraft carrier. Let's face the facts, the POTUS is the number one target in the world, probably, and he has to go abroad from time to time. That's costly. How much it'll cost to have Obama in India, I don't know. Neither does Fox. Difference is that Fox has picked a number out of a hat, and is going with it.

By the same logic, I can say that Glen Beck eats babies.

Cause I just said so.

 

[Plissken]

Yes, but it only works if you get a virtuous circle of people agreeing with you and taking it as gospel.

Besides, you are right that Glenn Beck eats babies, because I read it on the Internet. Right here.

 

[Blind_Io]

Just out of non-political interest, how does it look? About the only way to carry a sidearm openly I can imagine is the classic Wild West way, because "modern" holsters that are positioned directly at your belt are only fully visible when you don't wear a jacket. Same for shoulder holsters, of course.

Sorry for the late reply.

It depends on the holster, you can get them in every flavor you can imagine. I had a leather holster on my belt that wrapped around the center of my ultra-compact 1911. The pistol itself is pretty small. Now I have one that clips onto my belt but goes inside the trousers so only the grip and back of the slide is visible, it's easier to conceal under a shirt or jacket.

 

[Jay]

What I am pointing out Plissken, that pundits (Maddow as one, Beck as another) of both political spectrum's should be viewed as entertainers first, informed secondly.
I know, I know...it is hard to accept that people on "your side", may be using disinformation in the name of entertainment, but that is how it is. And you have wholly admitted in the past that you are or work for political commentators, so your comments and opinions in this section may be solely to promote an ideology or agenda for a particular political party.
I hope that last sentence infuriates you to no end; you seem to go off the deep end too easily, and I find it funny entertaining that you get bent out of shape over silly, trivial things.
And maybe you should watch the WHOLE video that is being referenced in this silly squabble of shredding straws (say that five times fast), to see why I called her a lesbian vampire.

 

[Cobol74]

Maddow and Beck make me laugh! What you need is Paxo. "He is noted for a forthright and abrasive interviewing style, particularly when interrogating politicians."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Paxman

 

[nomix]

Jay, I must say it's refreshing to debarte ideas with a conservative who's as respectful and decent as yourself. I've said it before, but it doesn't hurt to tell the truth twice, as I once said. I'm a comparative left-winger, my group has plenty of demons as well. Just saying, you know.

One thing, though. I've watched a lot of Jon Stewart. And while the Daily Show will take clips out of context, I really can't remember a time when the show made claims that were so outragous, and at the same time obviously untrue. Sure, he's not the most serious fella, but I have never, for instance, heard Stewart say stuff like "Sarah Palin wasn't born in America" or "why do you think there are so many fascists in the White House? If you ask anyone who really looks at international politics, they will tell you that the goal is Franco-Spain". I have, however, heard statements like that (at least the latter) from Glenn Beck about Obama (that time, he used "Maoists" and "China", though).

What am I saying? I'm just saying that while I respect people willing to debate ideas in a serious manner, wether they be conservative or liberal, there is a difference between for instance Glenn Beck and Jon Stewart. There are people who think Stewart is anything but a funny-man. There are probably times when he thinks so himself. But in essense, he's a funny-man. Who here really thinks that Glenn Beck thinks of himself as a funny-man? My point is this, Stewart might think he's a serious commentator once in a while, but Glenn thinks he's a serious commentator, full stop.

We'll never agree on the facts. Our view of reality and our interpretation of said facts will always differ. I think it was Lenin who said that "truth is always revolutionary". Dunno if that's really true. I've talked to maoists who think so. Spoken to conservatives who disagree. I've talked settlements in the West Bank (and their history) with Israeli settlers and Palestinian inhabitants of the West Bank. They have different stories to tell. It's the same history, but within different scopes of percived reality.

But can we all agree that Glenn Beck is batshit insane? Cause he is. It's as obvious as the shape of the earth. Or the birthplace of Obama.

(Or perhaps it's just my left-wing interpretation of reality? I'm not sure anymore, and I'm not being sarcastic.)

 

[Cobol74]

As soon as you put a label on yourself you are in danger of limiting your appreciation of individual issues and the effect of individual policies. I always look at why is 'this stuff' being told to me, by whom and who will benefit from a change in the status quo, or a resistance to a similar change.

On the other hand you end up thinking all Politicians are selfish, mean spirited, lying, crooked, gits. And if I do not want to stand for election myself then, in a way, I have no comeback.

 

[GRtak]

Glenn Beck watched V for Vendetta a few to many times and decided to become the Lewis Prothero.

 

[Blind_Io]

So how long before his body is found naked on his bathroom floor with a Scarlet Carson on his chest?

 

[tigger]

Would set an interesting precedent if they somehow won this case, maybe that Russian aeroplane manufacturer could sue the DoD for not having their bit selected.

Those fucks use some quasi-legal loopholes to dodge 60 billion in taxes ... then turn around and sue the government? "Do no evil" my left nut.

Is she paid by Fox to be a political entertainer?

I know that's rhetorical. I also know you're cynical enough to know the answer. :lol:

... lesbian vampire.

So she (a lesbian vampire on MSNBC) is an "entertainer" just like those at Fox ... but the onus to provide facts to back up a (rebuttal) argument is entirely on her? Not on the people making completely outrageous claims in the first place? I'm sorry, but that's just completely ass backwards.

So how long before his body is found naked on his bathroom floor with a Scarlet Carson on his chest?

Must resist urge ... to make comment ... that will put me ... on watchlist ...

 

[nomix]

As soon as you put a label on yourself you are in danger of limiting your appreciation of individual issues and the effect of individual policies. I always look at why is 'this stuff' being told to me, by whom and who will benefit from a change in the status quo, or a resistance to a similar change.

I put not one, but several labels on myself. The most important is "pragmatist". I can throw most principles out the door if they stop progress and do nothing other than that.

On the other hand you end up thinking all Politicians are selfish, mean spirited, lying, crooked, gits. And if I do not want to stand for election myself then, in a way, I have no comeback.

Wanna do it? The Nomix/Cobol ticket of 2012? I can get a birth certificate from that guy who sells them in Illinois. You're in?

 

[tigger]

The Nomix/Cobol ticket of 2012?

I'll gladly make sure no one asks too many questions about you guy's citizenship ... just let me run the CIA when you're in.

 

[Plissken]

What I am pointing out Plissken, that pundits (Maddow as one, Beck as another) of both political spectrum's should be viewed as entertainers first, informed secondly.
I know, I know...it is hard to accept that people on "your side", may be using disinformation in the name of entertainment, but that is how it is. And you have wholly admitted in the past that you are or work for political commentators, so your comments and opinions in this section may be solely to promote an ideology or agenda for a particular political party.
I hope that last sentence infuriates you to no end; you seem to go off the deep end too easily, and I find it funny entertaining that you get bent out of shape over silly, trivial things.
And maybe you should watch the WHOLE video that is being referenced in this silly squabble of shredding straws (say that five times fast), to see why I called her a lesbian vampire.

And now you are having a go at me... but you still haven't said that she is wrong...

 

[nomix]

I'll gladly make sure no one asks too many questions about you guy's citizenship ... just let me run the CIA when you're in.

As long as you don't try to cross us. I want my CoS to be continuely updated, fine?

 

[Cobol74]

Nomix - would not get in - I am an atheist, they'll vote for white or for black but absolutely not for an atheist. And I would not want to lie to get into power, hell I do not want to boss anyone around, oh hang on - yes, just the EU, now they are a bunch of crooks.