Random Thoughts (Political Edition)

[LeVeL]

So after being laughed at by the Conservatives for a whole term of trying to compromise, now you critizise Obama for not giving in?

The laughter did not come from me. I want them to find some sort of solution that most can be satisfied with.

It's written law, tested before the SCOTUS, failed to be repealed through the proper channels literally dozens of times. That's democracy, not failure to compromise.

Side note: If a party brought something up for vote dozens of times over here they'd be ridiculed by everyone, and mostly by their own voters for embarrassing themselves.

What our politicians' behavior and actions are doing is driving the parties, the states, and the people further and further apart. It is pretty obvious that a lot of people are against the ACA yet it is still being rammed down their throat. Other people do want the ACA yet it is constantly being challenged. This is exactly why the federal government should not be meddling in healthcare (or most other matters) and let states make their own decisions. MA is willing to try out the ACA so let them; MO is firmly against it, so why force that state's residents to participate?

 

[calvinhobbes]

False. The shutdown is the direct result of Senate democrats refusing to compromise on the ACA.

Do you remember what happened when they tried to work out a variety compromises?

 

[LeVeL]

Do you remember what happened when they tried to work out a variety compromises?

I'm not defending republicans... I just think its naive to lay the full blame on them as if the democrats were actually behaving in our best interests.

 

[calvinhobbes]

I'm not defending republicans...

Then what are you doing when you're saying that the shutdown is the fault of the Democrats?

I just think its naive to lay the full blame on them as if the democrats were actually behaving in our best interests.

I didn't say they did, career politicians act in their own best interest first and everything else comes second. But the shutdown was started by Republican Representatives... the same people who keep voting, pointlessly, to repeal the ACA instead of trying to improve it.

 

[narf]

rammed down their throat.

I'm out

 

[ScarFace88]

I'm a registered Republican and I'm getting tired of all this shutdown crap. My party needs to accept that Obamacare exists and will likely continue to exist (even though I think it's not a very good law that seems to make health care less affordable), and the Democrats should accept that it may need to be amended.

 

[LeVeL]

Then what are you doing when you're saying that the shutdown is the fault of the Democrats?

South Carolina is nullifying Obamacare. Missouri flat out refuses to create an exchange. At best a third of Americans support the ACA as it currently stands. Yet the Democrats refuse to delay it and are thus keeping the government shut down. The ACA is very FAR from perfect and it has to be revised before being forced unto us.

I didn't say they did, career politicians act in their own best interest first and everything else comes second. But the shutdown was started by Republican Representatives... the same people who keep voting, pointlessly, to repeal the ACA instead of trying to improve it.

The Democrats don't seem very interested in improving the ACA. They seem to have the I'm-right-you're-wrong mentality.

I'm out

I drive a Miata! :lol:

I'm a registered Republican and I'm getting tired of all this shutdown crap. My party needs to accept that Obamacare exists and will likely continue to exist (even though I think it's not a very good law that seems to make health care less affordable), and the Democrats should accept that it may need to be amended.

Unfortunately neither side is willing to accept anything other than what they are blindly shouting about. I am still a registered Republican but I have long stopped referring to myself as one precisely of behavior such as this. Both parties are a childish embarrassment. I'm voting LP.

 

[Cobol74]

What the hell has gotten into US politicians of late - I am baffled by their antics. Still not my place to criticise really, we do not have that much 'talent' either. At least Boris would be a laugh - (Cobol74 has gone bonkers. ?)

 

[calvinhobbes]

I'm a registered Republican and I'm getting tired of all this shutdown crap. My party needs to accept that Obamacare exists and will likely continue to exist (even though I think it's not a very good law that seems to make health care less affordable), and the Democrats should accept that it may need to be amended.

I was starting to think I'd never get to read this kind of thing.

- - - Updated - - -

South Carolina is nullifying Obamacare.

Since when can states nullify federal laws?

At best a third of Americans support the ACA as it currently stands.

Well, we've been there...

Yet the Democrats refuse to delay it and are thus keeping the government shut down. The ACA is very FAR from perfect and it has to be revised before being forced unto us.

The Democrats don't seem very interested in improving the ACA. They seem to have the I'm-right-you're-wrong mentality.

...and there. It doesn't become truth through repetition - we're not talking about a group that is capable of compromise, we're talking about a bunch of Tea Partiers.

 

[LeVeL]

Since when can states nullify federal laws?

Ever since states refuse to follow them. This has been especially prominent recently with the gun control laws (but that's for a different thread).

...we're not talking about a group that is capable of compromise, we're talking about a bunch of Tea Partiers and Democrats.

FTFY and now I agree.

 

[calvinhobbes]

FTFY and now I agree.

Oh FFS... who was elected President in 2012? Romney? Boehner? Anybody else from the "GOP"?

When the Democrats tried compromising with the Republicans over healthcare, (at least) the Tea Partiers saw it as a sign of weakness and jumped at every chance they got to sabotage "Obamacare". It was them who closed the door on compromise, not Obama.

 

[British_Rover]

It is done solely to piss people off, just like the monuments that normally require zero personnel now have multiple rangers keeping people out. Welcome to tyranny.

Yes tyrannically lying about things like you do without bothering to do even the most basic fact checking.

You shouldn't be allowed to say anything about the ACA. You don't know anything about it.

 

[LeVeL]

Yes tyrannically lying about things like you do without bothering to do even the most basic fact checking.

You shouldn't be allowed to say anything about the ACA. You don't know anything about it.

:lol: Your illusions of grandeur are always amusing. Do go on and educate me, oh wise one; I'll grab the popcorn.

 

[British_Rover]

:lol: Your illusions of grandeur are always amusing. Do go on and educate me, oh wise one; I'll grab the popcorn.

The facebook post you found that was obviously fabricated. You didn't do it but you went along with it because it matched your preconceived notions about the ACA. If you had ever bothered to read the law you would have known it was fake but you passed it along as real.


So when you do stuff like that why would anyone ever take your word on anything you post in regards to the ACA or well honestly anything.

 

[Cryptopygia]

The New York Times has a chart detailing what happened before the shutdown, and what is currently being done.

 

[Cellos88GT]

How my university likes to carry out political discourse (nsfw):

Spoiler

 

[ScarFace88]

If you're on reddit, you should post that in /r/wtf.

 

[LeVeL]

The facebook post you found that was obviously fabricated. You didn't do it but you went along with it because it matched your preconceived notions about the ACA. If you had ever bothered to read the law you would have known it was fake but you passed it along as real.

So when you do stuff like that why would anyone ever take your word on anything you post in regards to the ACA or well honestly anything.

You read the entire 906 pages of the law? Just wondering...
And yes, I did post that after being unable to find anything that clearly contradicted it. You can say I didn't do enough searching, didn't bother looking hard enough, whatever. I did post that, I know. One incident. But the current conversation is about the shutdown, not the merits of the ACA.

 

[calvinhobbes]

But the current conversation is about the shutdown, not the merits of the ACA.

How can you separate the two? The shutdown only happened because the Tea Partiers are on a crusade against the ACA, dragging the rest of the Republicans with them.

Blaming the Democrats for the shutdown is a bit like blaming a driver for the injuries of another one - a drunk driver who ran a red light an crashed into the car of the sober one.

 

[LeVeL]

How can you separate the two? The shutdown only happened because the Tea Partiers are on a crusade against the ACA, dragging the rest of the Republicans with them.

I'm not separating the two, but rather noting that we are not discussing the positives and negatives of Obamacare. We are talking about a law (disregarding its contents for the time being) and its role in the shutdown. At this point its pretty irrelevant exactly what the republicans want changed in the ACA. The fact that matters is that one side wants to pass the ACA in its current form, and the other doesn't and both sides feel quite strongly about it.