The civil rights thread

[LeVeL]

SCOTUS will be hearing arguments in the gay wedding cake case today. What are we thinking?

I think it's a pretty interesting case. Personally, I think it's a bit silly... in fact, I think the entire debate about gays is silly because a) I couldn't care less what people do behind closed doors, and b) government shouldn't be involved in things like marriage to begin with, but I digress. I think from personal perspectives we're probably all on the same page here but it's the legal arguments that make this interesting - I've always said that personal opinions shouldn't dictate law.

On the one hand, the easiest argument against the baker is where do you draw the line? He can't deny service to a black couple so why can he do it to a gay couple?

On the other hand, you can argue that the baker isn't denying the gay couple service - he did say that he can bake them any other cake except for a wedding cake and that they are free to choose any of his other wedding cakes, it's just that he won't make a custom cake specifically for a gay wedding. The analogy I heard on the radio this morning was asking McDonald's to make a gay cheeseburger - you can't really expect that, can you? Also, if we do force him to bake the cake, will he be forced to bake any and all cakes, like ones with something grotesque and gory on them?

So it's a pretty interesting legal/constitutional argument for both sides and I'm curious to see how this will end. I think what it comes down to is figuring out where to draw the line between "that's discriminatory and we can't allow it" and "we respect your position and can't force you to do that".

 

[prizrak]

I would say a private business can pick and choose who they do business with, presumably any business that is stupid enough to refuse paying customers for no legitimate reason (if they asked him to bake a poisonous cake for example) would end up losing customers to less stupid businesses and not do as well.

 

[TC]

On the other hand, you can argue that the baker isn't denying the gay couple service - he did say that he can bake them any other cake except for a wedding cake and that they are free to choose any of his other wedding cakes, it's just that he won't make a custom cake specifically for a gay wedding.

As I understand it, he was willing to make them a wedding cake, and even customize it. But because of his religious beliefs, he was not willing to put anything on it that directly referenced homosexuality or whatever. He even apparently offered to help refer them to another reputable bakery that could better serve them.

Personally, I don't think that is unreasonable. If you went to a Hindu bakery and asked for a chocolate birthday cake in the shape of a cow, with strawberries inside, so you can feel like you're eating beef even during dessert, and they refused on religious grounds, would it be reasonable to sue them?

Of course, being a meat eater isn't a privileged class, I mean, a protected class, sorry, so there is a completely different standard.

 

[kunedog]

I would say a private business can pick and choose who they do business with, presumably any business that is stupid enough to refuse paying customers for no legitimate reason (if they asked him to bake a poisonous cake for example) would end up losing customers to less stupid businesses and not do as well.

Nothing could be more legitimate than "I'm gay; you have to leave." He should have just said that.