Israel attacks humanitarian aid convoy in international waters

I mean that's the point of fighting. you try to hurt the person who tried to hurt you without being hurt yourself. I'm not sure whether death was the correct response, but it is sheer stupidity to attack a soldier, who has a gun, and chances are is a lot bigger than you, on the grounds that it isn't right for him to kill you back.
 
Isn't amazing, just amazing, how every single time it is the Israelis who are attacked first and the attackers who all end up dead. Every time! The IDF are ninjas I tell you!

Such is the stupidity of attacking a superior force. I do not credit the "activists" with any real intelligence.
 
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What this world needs is are more activists trying to help people. What we do not need are internet assholes.
As of right now calls are made by leading columnists and politicians to end the EU trade agreement with Israel, boycott israeli goods and ban israeli athletes from international competitions. Building walls to create palestinian ghettos, using false european passports for assassinations abroad, attacking humanitarian aid convoys in international waters, the list never ends. By now it's time to say that enough is enough.
 
So far, Israel has agreed the boarding was in international waters, coordinates say it was boarded in international waters, I'm sure the EU will agree, so will the UN, and even if he won't say it out loud, the guy in the White House probably also thinks so.

They don't get it. They are behaving in a way that would put any other nation on a number of black lists, had it been Iran, there would have been proper sanctions, big boy sanctions, not just verbal condemnation.

Israel says taking the ship straight to Gaza was provocation.

Unlike the quite illegal blockade of Gaza, which isn't provocation.

There are times when I think what these idiots (on both sides) need is a negotiator to tell them "you're being fucking idiotic children, stop it, or I will deploy the US Navy".

Seriously, I'm so fucking sick of this quagmyre of shit, they are all fucking morons!
 
Such is the stupidity of attacking a superior force.

If you define "sitting on a boat while a helicopter dropped people armed with MP5s" as attacking, then yes...

I do not credit the "activists" with any real intelligence.

I mean, they refused to submit to being boarding into international waters by armed gunmen from a completely illegitimate force therefore it was perfectly just and proper that they got killed by them.

Sheesh!

Why the hell do people think the activists attacked the Israelis? They were unarmed and in international fucking waters!
 
Am I the only one who thinks that Bibi Netanyahu sounds a lot like Gordon Brown?
 
Dunno, but Regev makes Comical Ali look like a paragon of truth.
 
A few more interesting videos:


On the second video you can see the top loaders of the nonlethal paintball markers.

http://img707.imageshack.**/img707/8691/idf1.png
 
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Why the hell do people think the activists attacked the Israelis? They were unarmed and in international fucking waters!

They were NOT in international waters. It was in the UN recognized EEZ, which, while not territorial waters, isn't international waters either.

They don't get it. They are behaving in a way that would put any other nation on a number of black lists, had it been Iran, there would have been proper sanctions, big boy sanctions, not just verbal condemnation.

So Norway should be on blacklists and have sanctions placed upon it by those standards.... Sure you want to do that?

Also, we haven't seen the EU impose any 'big boy' sanctions on Iran at all. Ever. And they've done far worse things than this.
 
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And there is the fact that Israel warned everyone what would happen. The blockage is not secret and it is called a blockage for a reason. Did they think an attempt to run it would not elicit a response?
 
They were NOT in international waters.
You are wrong. Our state department says they were in international waters. The turkish navy says they were in international waters. Even the IDF says the operation took place in international waters.
 
it is sheer stupidity to attack a soldier, who has a gun, and chances are is a lot bigger than you, on the grounds that it isn't right for him to kill you back.

That 'grounds' is called the Geneva convention, and is something Nations have agreed to abide by for decades, including Israel. Granted, most Nations have broken them at some point or another, and the majority of them have had no justice brought upon them. While I may disagree with the black/white view of this convention according to Military Law, ignoring it completely is stupidity and savagery at it's most prominent.

They are behaving in a way that would put any other nation on a number of black lists, had it been Iran, there would have been proper sanctions, big boy sanctions, not just verbal condemnation.

It's simple economics. Iran poses no real threat to anyone. Alright, they've gone ahead with their own nuclear programme despite it being slammed by almost every civilised nation on the planet. But their capability for harm is very minimal. Israel, whether we like to admit it or not, are a major player when it comes to armed conflict. Frankly, the UK wouldn't be able to commit to a full-scale conflict with Israel, and even the US would be stretched. As for the other Nations, most of them don't even have the support at home for the counter-insurgency in Afghanistan, let alone a pissing contest with a capable armed force.

I hate to say this, and it sounds somewhat cowardly, but for now at least, I hope we keep this at arms length for as long as possible before we start to take the gloves off.
 
You are wrong. Our state department says they were in international waters. The turkish navy says they were in international waters. Even the IDF says the operation took place in international waters.

Try not to bring up the Turks to reinforce any argument. They have had a stick up their ass for Israel for quite awhile.
 
They were NOT in international waters. It was in the UN recognized EEZ, which, while not territorial waters, isn't international waters either.
As others have mentioned, even Israel recognizes that the ships were in international waters.

So Norway should be on blacklists and have sanctions placed upon it by those standards.... Sure you want to do that?
Well, we don't occupy anyone. But let's hypotesise for a moment. If Norway was violently occupying a part of Northern Russia, imposing a blockade from the sea, and we boarded a ship with aid, and in the process killed people, I'd expect it.

Also, we haven't seen the EU impose any 'big boy' sanctions on Iran at all. Ever. And they've done far worse things than this.
The US has.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._sanctions_against_Iran

Try not to bring up the Turks to reinforce any argument. They have had a stick up their ass for Israel for quite awhile.
Yes, not to mention that darn club of arabloving leftist the IDF, who also says that the ships were in international waters.
 
you can't call yourself a "peace activist", provoke commandos who you know have live ammunition, then pretend to be all innocent. Outside of Israeli media nobody is reporting the videos of the IDF getting attacked with knives and stuff, its all how the gentle peaceful "peace activists" were attacked for no reason.
 
Non-lethal paintball markers? How did nineteen people die from non-lethal paintball markers?

How can you have ship to ship combat with iron bars?

They threw a soldier off a ship after he had illegally boarded it in international waters in an attempt to prevent it from going to its destination? What were they supposed to do? Give him tea and cake?

How can you type this stuff with a straight face? Nineteen people are dead FFS!
 
Non-lethal paintball markers? How did nineteen people die from non-lethal paintball markers?

How can you have ship to ship combat with iron bars? Sailing in international waters is provocation requiring commandos boarding your ship?

They threw a soldier off a ship after he had illegally boarded it in international waters in an attempt to prevent it from going to its destination? What were they supposed to do? Give him tea and cake?

How can you people type this stuff with a straight face? Nineteen people are dead FFS!
 
Try not to bring up the Turks to reinforce any argument.
Funny, you keep bringing up Israel to reinforce yours. I know which one I consider to be closest to the truth.

you can't call yourself a "peace activist", provoke commandos who you know have live ammunition, then pretend to be all innocent.
Huh? Let's see, foreign military attacks and boards ship sailing in international waters and you don't consider that an provokation?
 
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I think there are more peaceful ways to board and inspect a ship than elite commandos coming down from a helicopter with automatic weapons ready. If the inspection is meant to be an inspection and not a raid, that is.

Interestingly, two Irish TDs (members of the Irish Parliament) were warned off travelling with the convoy yesterday. I suspect there was an element of pre-planning, and the Israelis didn't want anyone "important" caught in the cross-fire.
Reportedly two German members of parliament were aboard the ships.
 
Non-lethal paintball markers? How did nineteen people die from non-lethal paintball markers?

Have you considered that the soldiers only fired back after being attacked?

They threw a soldier off a ship after he had illegally boarded it in international waters in an attempt to prevent it from going to its destination? What were they supposed to do? Give him tea and cake?

Realize that attacking the soldiers would get them nowhere.

How can you have ship to ship combat with iron bars?

What?

Funny, you keep bringing up Israel to reinforce yours. I know which one I consider to be closest to the truth.

I do not trust Israel explicitly but I certainly do not trust any other nation in the area.

I think there are more peaceful ways to board and inspect a ship than elite commandos coming down from a helicopter with automatic weapons ready. If the inspection is meant to be an inspection and not a raid, that is.

A brutal ambush at sea
Ron Ben Yishai recounts bloody clash aboard Gaza-bound vessel: The lacking crowd-dispersal means, the brutal violence of ?peace activists,? and the attempt to bring down an IDF helicopter
Ron Ben-Yishai
Published: 05.31.10, 15:44 / Israel News

Our Navy commandoes fell right into the hands of the Gaza mission members. A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel?s bridge and order the Marmara?s captain to stop.

Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation?s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.

Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.

However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.

One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other ?don?t shoot, don?t shoot,? even though they sustained numerous blows.

?I saw the tip of a rifle?

The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.

The planned rush towards the vessel?s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. ?Throw stun grenades,? shouted Flotilla 13?s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.

The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.

Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters? legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.

?I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,? one commando said. ?He fired at us and we fired back. We didn?t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn?t find him.? Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.

2 errors

During the commotion, another commando was stabbed with a knife. In a later search aboard the Marmara, soldiers found caches of bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots used by the rioters ahead of the IDF takeover. It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.

Some passengers on the ship stood at the back and pounded the soldiers? hands as they attempted to climb on board. Only after a 30-minute shootout and brutal assaults using clubs and knifes did commandoes manage to reach the bridge and take over the Marmara.

It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok. The forces that disembarked from the helicopters were few; just dozens of troops ? not enough to contend with the large group awaiting them.

The second error was that commanders did not address seriously enough the fact that a group of men were expecting the soldiers on the top deck. Had they addressed this more seriously, they may have hurled tear-gas grenades and smoke grenades from the helicopter to create a screen that would have enabled them to carry out their mission, without the fighters falling right into the hands of the rioters, who severely assaulted them.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html

Automatic weapons ready? Says who?
 
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