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    UK gets bored of Europe, wants out.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15382019

    The three big parties at Westminster have told their MPs to vote against a motion calling for a referendum to be held on UK membership of the EU.

    Mr Nuttall's motion calls for a referendum by May 2013 and says the public should have three options put to them in the nationwide vote - keeping the status quo, leaving the EU or reforming the terms of the UK's membership of the European Union.
    All the parties were in support of a referendum before the last election, now all three are trying to prevent that from occurring.

    Why? Well if this goes to a referendum we're leaving: "49% of those polled would vote to leave the EU in a referendum; 25% wanted to stay. 57% believed that being in the EU has been negative, while 32% thought it had been positive", and that's before the inevitable massive negative campaigning as every EU bureaucrat's dirty laundry gets aired in the UK Tabloids.

    #2
    Well what can I say? If they want to do so, they should do it. But with all the consequences. No extra special treatment shit offering the benefits but taking away all the disadvantages.

    If it was for us to decide... I really don't know what opinion to have. I don't really understand the dynamics (in an economical perspective) that is behind all that. Just listening to the tabloid style of news Germany should be the first country to leave the EU, cause we are the ones that pay most. But I'm not sure how what the specific advantages are.

    If we just left the EU... would it be really such a drawback for our industry to sell their products? Anyway, because of history we'd never be in the position to do that. It is just impossible politically...
    Last edited by idk; October 20th, 2011, 1:46 PM.

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      #3
      The many vulnerable Conservative MPs are fucked at the next election if they vote No to this. In real terms it is not a massive issue, but it is a seriously grinding one for many Tory voters who want their voices heard.

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        #4
        Originally posted by idk View Post
        Well what can I say? If they want to do so, they should do it. But with all the consequences. No extra special treatment shit offering the benefits but taking away all the disadvantages.
        Yes, and we do not have to pay for all that crap from Brussells - and we get our fish back - w00t! And idk there are NO BENEFITS for us - what so ever.

        No one has ever told me of a single benefit to us - you got any? No I thought not.

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          #5
          Well... trading inside the EU works better cause there is less trouble when crossing a border. I think that is a benefit. I live close to the French border. Now I can just walk to France. About 20 years ago there were still checks and it could take some time.

          Since the UK is pretty insulated on its island, I don't know how much you depend from import/export and how "bad" it would be with all the customs stuff etc. I know 20-30 years ago it also worked somehow. But economics is different now. Back then it was not like you would order small personal items on Amazon abroad. There was much less international goods-traffic

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            #6
            Originally posted by idk View Post
            But with all the consequences. No extra special treatment shit offering the benefits but taking away all the disadvantages.
            This is what i've been wondering, helpfully the EU have produced the relevant propaganda.

            The main points seem to be:
            - EASA (universally despised by UK aviation)
            - Not needing a passport to travel to Europe (recent terror laws still require that you have a passport to travel to Europe)
            - Reduced customs checks (ha, UKBA didn't get that memo)
            - Economic growth in the EU (strangely doesn't say in the UK, just the EU as a whole...)
            - Cheaper roaming
            - A massive amount of environmental and food regulation (because everyone in the UK loves French farm subsidies)
            - Something about stronger boarders (ignoring the number of non-EU asylum seekers who arrive from other EU countries)
            - And... well that's it.

            I'm really not seeing the advantage here. We pour millions more into Europe than we get back, we lose the ability to control immigration from the EU, we get mountains of extra regulations and our economy gets tied more strongly into the Euro clusterfuck.

            Last edited by WillDAQ; October 20th, 2011, 2:06 PM.

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              #7
              Originally posted by idk View Post
              Well... trading inside the EU works better cause there is less trouble when crossing a border. I think that is a benefit. I live close to the French border. Now I can just walk to France. About 20 years ago there were still checks and it could take some time.

              Since the UK is pretty insulated on its island, I don't know how much you depend from import/export and how "bad" it would be with all the customs stuff etc. I know 20-30 years ago it also worked somehow. But economics is different now. Back then it was not like you would order small personal items on Amazon abroad.
              1. Yes but you can not just walk into England now can you?
              2. Our old empire (we mostly have good relations with the old empire strangely) and the US gave us everything we need really - and they all speak English and used imperial measures for the most part.
              3. You and the French can get on dominating the rest of Europe without worrying about us.

              So economically what was in it for us? Oh we were going to get our money back through regional aid - has not happened, then Tony 'cave in at the heart of europe, quick lets sell all our gold cheaply' Blair gave you half of the rebate we once had on the grounds that you guys were going to reform the CAP - when is that going to happen then? Pigs will fly. Our Politicians just can not play the European game - they can not lie as well as yours who are masters at the crooked deal - ours just get caught.

              To be frank with you, we do our best to ignore the EEC as a stupid hinderance and a 'break' on doing business. It costs us thousands of jobs as well as lots of money.

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                #8
                But for us it isn't any better right?

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                  #9
                  Any advantages that we currently have by being in the European Union could also be had with a free trade and movement agreement similar to that of Switzerland or Norway. But with the added advantages of not having to spend billions of pounds a year and getting back crucial powers.

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                    #10
                    The lack of exchange rate fluctuations in the Euro zone combined with the absence of export and import duties in the European marketplace have saved the notoriously export-orientated German economy more money than we could ever dump into the Euro.
                    Last edited by Dr_Grip; October 20th, 2011, 3:02 PM.
                    Battered and weary after the craziness of the 1960s, the self-righteousness of the 1970s and the greed of the 1980s, I want to go home again, oh, so desperately - home to that land of drive-in restaurants and Chevy Bel-Airs, making out and rock 'n' roll and drag races and Studebakers, Elvis and James Dean and black leather jackets. Not that I ever owned a black leather jacket.
                    (Roger Ebert)

                    |

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                      #11
                      idk
                      No it was great - the Euro depressed the value of your currency by about 20% so you could sell your kit outside the Euro Zone more cheaply, and your economy is way more efficient than anyone elses to begin with.

                      I am old enough to remember the feeling that when we voted to go in we were going to catch efficiency like some sort of communical disease from Germany. Well that has not happened and we seem hell bound in making everything in this country worse from the health service, defence, education, through to stupid European laws and legislation, some of which is directly caused by the EEC/EU.

                      Why are people being paid in Brussells to do this shit anyway? We also have proportunately fewer people employed directly by the EU than any other major country, the commission is where cronyism is the order of the day (French Dentists for instance).

                      Mrs Thatcher even campaigned for Ukania into Europe in the 70s, until someone told her of the stitch up but then it was too late.
                      Last edited by Cobol74; October 20th, 2011, 2:20 PM.

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                        #12
                        UK gets bored of Europe, wants out.
                        The feeling is mutual. Please get out today rather than tomorrow, you're holding the rest of us back.

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                          #13
                          No we are paying for it all - bye.

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                            #14
                            No we are paying for it all - bye.

                            Edit/ (OK with Germany, Sweden and Holland - but there are 27 countries in it that is a lot of people to subsidise and we have not quite got Turkey in just yet)

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                              #15

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                                #16
                                Originally posted by Cobol74 View Post
                                No we are paying for it all - bye.

                                Edit/ (OK with Germany, Sweden and Holland - but there are 27 countries in it that is a lot of people to subsidise and we have not quite got Turkey in just yet)
                                Obviously, your mind is made up, so there's no point in discussion. I'll just keep laughing about the Euromyths that some people in the UK gobble up like a fish eats bait.

                                Originally posted by idk View Post
                                A state should be run like a small private company.
                                Never in a million years! For instance, the term "making someone redundant" would take on a whole new meaning in that scenario.
                                Last edited by calvinhobbes; October 20th, 2011, 2:45 PM.

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by calvinhobbes View Post
                                  The feeling is mutual. Please get out today rather than tomorrow, you're holding the rest of us back.
                                  It is a bit of a mystery isn't it, if neither the UK nor the rest of Europe want is in the EU, why are we still there?!

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                                    #18
                                    They need our money to pay for the mess.

                                    Euro sceptic and I do not agree with all contained within but lots of this are true. ...

                                    http://nemoinsula.wordpress.com/2010...questionnaire/
                                    Last edited by Cobol74; October 20th, 2011, 3:07 PM.

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                                      #19
                                      Goodbye export industry..
                                      "If you're not getting the picture you want, you're not close enough" - Robert Capa
                                      "Your first 14000 pictures are your worst" - HCB
                                      - David Bailey! Who's he?!
                                      I am one of "the two most level headed and pragmatic regular posters on the politics forum" according to anonymous sources.
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                                      Bustin' chops since the late 80s

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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by WillDAQ View Post
                                        It is a bit of a mystery isn't it, if neither the UK nor the rest of Europe want is in the EU, why are we still there?!
                                        You are because it is, when you look past all the histrionics, lies and blame-games for just a split second, the best option. Do bear in mind that a huge amount of the "criticism" levelled at the EU is just politicians blaming the more distant entity for necessary but unpopular decisions.

                                        To clarify my earlier, highly sarcastic post: I do not long for the day when the UK leaves the EU. What I do hope for is an end to the nonsense that lots of people from the country spread about it, primarily because this overshadows many legitimate grievances that they may have with the EU.
                                        Last edited by calvinhobbes; October 20th, 2011, 3:03 PM.

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