Gun politics thread

I apologize, but I don't see how these examples mean that all government IT is unworthy.

Also, what college buddy/cronies did Obama hire?

BTW I really doubt the pres hires many people outside of his staff .
 
I apologize, but I don't see how these examples mean that all government IT is unworthy.

Talk to anyone who's done IT for the government. It's shit.

Also, what college buddy/cronies did Obama hire?

I didn't say it was Obama, I said it was people in the Administration. But, hey:

Princeton influence? Toni Townes-Whitley, senior vice president of CGI Federal, is a 1985 graduate of Princeton, according to a Princeton alumni magazine. Obama is also a 1985 graduate. There are numerous references to the ?pals? in such conservative websites as the Daily Caller, which states that ?while at Princeton, Michelle Obama and Townes-Whitley were both active in the Organization of Black Unity and the Third World Center. They both now belong to the Association of Black Princeton Alumni.? Not one of those websites say that the two were close friends, or that their ?friendship? impacted the selection of CGI.

Townes-Whitley met with administration officials four times in 2013, according to White House visitor logs, which show she was alone but which do not specify a reason for the meetings. Her and her husband also attended a White House Christmas party in 2010 and had a photo taken with the Obamas. OpenSecrets.org, which tracks political contributions, shows that Townes-Whitley donated a total of $1,500 to Barack Obama in 2011 and 2012.

You don't have to be 'close' friends to steer business to someone. Just look at college alumni and fraternity associations and how they work. I'd also point out, just to forstall the inevitable comment, the First Lady is still a part of the administration. Bill Clinton pointed out that Hillary was all but his 'co-president' while he was in office, for that matter.

BTW I really doubt the pres hires many people outside of his staff .

They got a $678 Mil no-bid no-tender contract. Nobody else was considered despite 15 other companies being qualified by the government to perform such services.

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Here's another point regarding Federal IT stupidity. Even CGI, as stupid as they are, isn't dumb enough to roll out something that blatantly just doesn't work at all. But the Federal supervisors rolled out the site despite *knowing* it wouldn't work, and over the protests of even CGI. http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/politics/obamacare-website-problems/

Washington (CNN) -- The President's healthcare sign-up web page was supposed to handle tens of thousands of people at once. But in a trial run days before its launch, just a few hundred users flatlined the site.

Despite the problems, federal health officials pushed aside the crash cart and rolled out HealthCare.gov on October 1 as planned, The Washington Post reported.
 
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Ok, whatever, but I don't think it is all a website problem. I think what is going on in the last dozen years or so is more of a bunch of unscrutilzed data being thrown up. It is not just this agency, there seems to be a general "more data is better" and we will find out later if it is wrong or just being used incorrectly.
 
Aaaaand we're back to "the government is always incompetent". :wall: Spectre, please give me an idea of a background check system that you would consider effective.

Talk to anyone who's done IT for the government. It's shit.
I don't think Edward Snowden would agree, which exemplifies the term "wrong priorities".
 
Aaaaand we're back to "the government is always incompetent". :wall: Spectre, please give me an idea of a background check system that you would consider effective.

Pre-HIPPA FBI non-NICS background checks and military security clearance checks actually worked reasonably well. Not so much any more...

I don't have a problem with the idea of background checks. I *do* have a problem with untrustworthy, unreliable and stupidly run background checks.

I don't think Edward Snowden would agree, which exemplifies the term "wrong priorities".

Actually, Snowden is a case in point for the *incompetence* of government IT. Neither he nor Manning would have been able to do what they did, not to the degree they did, if IT had been competent.
 
Aaaaand we're back to "the government is always incompetent".
Not always, just 99% of the time :p


please give me an idea of a background check system that you would consider effective.
How about none? When is the last time a criminal walked into a gun shop and presented his or her firearms license? You know, the one that you don't receive if you don't pass a background check... Shouldn't that be good enough, instead of making me fill out paperwork and waiting for the cashier to re-enter that info into NICS, then call NICS, verbally give them the info again, etc?
 
Not always, just 99% of the time :p
Yeah, yeah... :boohoo:

How about none? When is the last time a criminal walked into a gun shop and presented his or her firearms license? You know, the one that you don't receive if you don't pass a background check...
So what's the price of a fake firearms licence?

There are good reasons for scrutiny of firearms purchases; I hope that I don't have to open that can of worms yet again. Even the Second Amendment states that the militia is to be well regulated, so unless you deliberately omit that part of the law when you refer to it, regulation must come with the right to keep and bear arms.
 
So what's the price of a fake firearms licence?
What's wrong with a quick database check to see if the license is valid? No need to run my background yet again, especially when that means that the government is now alerted that I'm buying a gun.
 
What's wrong with a quick database check to see if the license is valid?
You'd be OK with giving every firearms dealer access to a database that contains sensitive and security-relevant personal data of millions of citizens? Now that is a nightmare if I've ever seen one! :blink:

No need to run my background yet again, especially when that means that the government is now alerted that I'm buying a gun.
With the lack of firearms monitoring in the US, the last thing you need to worry about is the government knowing that you've bought one. What are they going to do about it, particularly since they're incompetent

99% of the time
and have no reason to prosecute you for making a legal purchase? It's just absurd: if you declare the government incompetent and ineffective one moment, you don't have a leg to stand on if you call it an omniscient oppressor the next.
 
You'd be OK with giving every firearms dealer access to a database that contains sensitive and security-relevant personal data of millions of citizens?
No, they would have access to LESS personal information than they do now. I'm picturing a system where they punch in my license number and if the database comes back with a match, they verify the name, DOB, and address. Done. The query can even notify the dealer if my license has been revoked or suspended.


With the lack of firearms monitoring in the US, the last thing you need to worry about is the government knowing that you've bought one. What are they going to do about it...
They can attempt to confiscate guns after passing arbitrary laws. I'm on my phone and need to get back to work so I can't post links right now but for arbitrary laws that do not have public support, look up Colorado's bans of 2013 and the three senators they got rid of because of said laws. For confiscation, look up NYC's mailed notices. "They're coming for our gunnnzzzz" is NOT some NRA conspiracy - its actually happening in NY and CA. The less the government knows about me, the better but unfortunately MA has gun registration and stringent laws so its really just a matter of time.
 
Because all corporations are better than the government being effective?
Just speaking generally here but a company specializing in a certain service and reaching a certain level within their respective industry would generally be good at what they do. Look at it this way, how much money can Google or Apple pay their engineers vs a gov't that's running a deficit for 10 years?
Healthcare.gov was set up by a contractor, which should have improved its chances of not sucking. However, the contractor they hired was an already known failure of a company that nobody in their right mind would ever have trusted them to program a crosswalk sign - but they were apparently hired for no other reason than that company leaders were friends of people in the Administration. Here, let me quote myself, with added emphasis.
I quit that company right when they got the contract (they bought the company I was working for at the time), I knew the site would suck from the beginning. Let me put it this way, a company that's supposed to be one of the top IT contractors in the world could not make their internal websites work with anything but IE...

Scarier part is that they have ridiculously huge government contracts in the defense and security area.
You don't have to be 'close' friends to steer business to someone. Just look at college alumni and fraternity associations and how they work. I'd also point out, just to forstall the inevitable comment, the First Lady is still a part of the administration. Bill Clinton pointed out that Hillary was all but his 'co-president' while he was in office, for that matter.
One of the things that they have told us before is that they get a lot of business through personal connections and tend to base their sales person hiring that way.

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You'd be OK with giving every firearms dealer access to a database that contains sensitive and security-relevant personal data of millions of citizens? Now that is a nightmare if I've ever seen one! :blink:

Why would it give them any kind of info? All it has to do is pull up name and picture, maybe DOB and license number. You can even make them like they do Passports now, add a coded chip to it to make it harder to fake.

Look at it this way, I don't have to take a road test every time I buy a car, presenting a valid driver's license is more than enough for a dealer to sell me a car. Yet more people are killed by cars than guns (3x more as of 2011 actually).
 
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I'm on my phone and need to get back to work so I can't post links right now ... For confiscation, look up NYC's mailed notices.
As promised, here's one article.

Screen-Shot-2013-11-27-at-9.31.12-AM.png



Then there's this NY gem (albeit without proper citation of source but certainly believable):
Sent in all of my paperwork in Feb of 2013 and they gave me an appointment for finger prints of Dec 5 2013. Well after going through that today they said I should get the permit in 6 months and then another 3 months to have it amended with the guns I own.


Also found this article to be of interest:
Connecticut Shouldn't Be Surprised That "Fewer People Than Expected Have Registered Weapons"
J.D. Tuccille|Dec. 3, 2013 12:43 pm
Earlier this year, Connecticut politicians took advantage of the horrific Newtown shootings to dust off a wish list of draconian firearms restrictions and race them through the legislative process into law. The restrictions wouldn't have prevented the mass murder?they would have been completely irrelevant to the crime, in fact?which may be why they were rammed through under "emergency certification" with no referrals to committees or public hearings. Among other things, the new law requires registration of "assault weapons" and high-capacity magazines by January 1, 2014. Any student of history could have predicted officials' current concerns now that relatively few residents are complying with the law and telling the state what they own as the deadline fast approaches.

According to Hugh McQuaid at CT News Junkie:

As of mid-November, the state had received about 4,100 applications for assault weapon certificates and about 2,900 declarations of large-capacity magazines.

Michael Lawlor, Gov. Dannel P. Malloy?s criminal justice advisor, said that so far fewer people than expected have registered weapons under the new law. However, he said gun owners should take seriously the consequences of ignoring the law. Disregarding the registration requirements can carry felony charges in some cases, which can make Connecticut residents ineligible to own guns.

First-time offenders who can prove they owned the weapon before the law passed, and have otherwise followed the law, may be charged with a class A misdemeanor. In other cases, possessing one of the newly-banned guns will be considered a felony that carries with it a sentence of at least a year in prison.

?If you haven?t declared it or registered it and you get caught . . . you?ll be a felon. People who disregard the law are, among other things, jeopardizing their right to own firearms. If you?re not a law-abiding citizen, you?re not a law-abiding citizen,? Lawlor said.

Mr. Lawlor (pictured at right), like most government officials, seems to think he and his buddies have invented policy out of whole cloth, and that the population has no choice but to shuffle along and obey. But weapons registration laws have a history?a consistent history, as I've written, of noncompliance and defiance.

State officials could have taken a moment to glance across the state line to New York City, where a few tens of thousands of firearms are owned legally, and an estimated two million are held illegally, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. That is not uncommon. In my piece on the history of gun control's failure, I wrote:

The high water mark of American compliance with gun control laws may have come with Illinois?s handgun registration law in the 1970s. About 25 percent of handgun owners actually complied, according to Don B. Kates, a criminologist and civil liberties attorney, writing in the December 1977 issue of Inquiry. After that, about 10 percent of ?assault weapon? owners obeyed California?s registration law, says David B. Kopel, research director for Colorado?s Independence Institute, a free-market think-tank, and author of The Samurai, The Mountie, and The Cowboy, a book-length comparison of international firearms policies.

That one-in-10 estimate may have been generous. As the registration period came to a close in 1990, The New York Times reported ?only about 7,000 weapons of an estimated 300,000 in private hands in the state have been registered.?

Connecticut may want to look close to home for even lower compliance figures. In New Jersey, reported The New York Times in 1991, after the legislature passed a law banning ?assault weapons,? 947 people registered their rifles as sporting guns for target shooting, 888 rendered them inoperable, and four surrendered them to the police. That?s out of an estimated 100,000 to 300,000 firearms affected by the law.

Over the years, officials in New York City and California used registration records to confiscate guns, in violation of their own promises. That's a lesson that firearms owners have taken to heart in this country (and elsewhere), probably permanently dooming the enforceability of such laws.

The end result of pushing through gun laws that people won't obey is very predictable. You end up with a society in which people continue to own vast numbers of weapons regardless of the law. Connecticut may be on the way, sometime after the new year's registration deadline, to turning itself into a replica of Germany, where up to 20 million unregistered firearms are held in addition to 7.2 million legal ones, or France, where as many as 17 million illegal guns overshadow 2.8 million legal ones.

If you bother to learn from history, it shouldn't be a surprise that people stop caring whether they're "not a law-abiding citizen" when they lose respect for the law and the people who inflict it on them.
 
It has now been confirmed that police officers in Mass can access a list of all firearms registered to a Mass resident, even though the state claims that there is no registry and the forms you have to fill out with every purchase are just to track "transfers". Just about two more years until I get the f out of the Commiewealth of Taxachusetts.


In other news:
Crime soared with Mass. gun law

IN 1998, Massachusetts passed what was hailed as the toughest gun-control legislation in the country. Among other stringencies, it banned semiautomatic ?assault? weapons, imposed strict new licensing rules, prohibited anyone convicted of a violent crime or drug trafficking from ever carrying or owning a gun, and enacted severe penalties for storing guns unlocked.

?Today, Massachusetts leads the way in cracking down on gun violence,? said Republican Governor Paul Cellucci as he signed the bill into law. ?It will save lives and help fight crime in our communities.? Scott Harshbarger, the state?s Democratic attorney general, agreed: ?This vote is a victory for common sense and for the protection of our children and our neighborhoods.? One of the state?s leading anti-gun activists, John Rosenthal of Stop Handgun Violence, joined the applause. ?The new gun law,? he predicted, ?will certainly prevent future gun violence and countless grief.?

It didn?t.

The 1998 legislation did cut down, quite sharply, on the legal use of guns in Massachusetts. Within four years, the number of active gun licenses in the state had plummeted. ?There were nearly 1.5 million active gun licenses in Massachusetts in 1998,? the AP reported. ?In June [2002], that number was down to just 200,000.? The author of the law, state Senator Cheryl Jacques, was pleased that the Bay State?s stiff new restrictions had made it possible to ?weed out the clutter.?

But the law that was so tough on law-abiding gun owners had quite a different impact on criminals.

Since 1998, gun crime in Massachusetts has gotten worse, not better. In 2011, Massachusetts recorded 122 murders committed with firearms, the Globe reported this month ? ?a striking increase from the 65 in 1998.? Other crimes rose too. Between 1998 and 2011, robbery with firearms climbed 20.7 percent. Aggravated assaults jumped 26.7 percent.

Don?t hold your breath waiting for gun-control activists to admit they were wrong. The treatment they prescribed may have yielded the opposite of the results they promised, but they?re quite sure the prescription wasn?t to blame. Crime didn?t rise in Massachusetts because the state made it harder for honest citizens to lawfully carry a gun; it rose because other states didn?t do the same thing.

?Massachusetts probably has the toughest laws on the books, but what happens is people go across borders and buy guns and bring them into our state,? rationalizes Boston Mayor Tom Menino. ?Guns have no borders.?

This has become a popular argument in gun-control circles. It may even be convincing to someone emotionally committed to the belief that ever-stricter gun control is a plausible path to safety. But it doesn?t hold water.

For starters, why didn?t the gun-control lobby warn legislators in 1998 that adopting the toughest gun law in America would do Massachusetts no good unless every surrounding state did the same thing? Far from explaining why the new law would do nothing to curb violent crime, they were positive it would make Massachusetts even safer. It was gun-rights advocates, such as state Senator Richard Moore, who correctly predicted the future. ?Much of what has been said in support of this bill will not come to pass,? said Moore during the 1998 debate. ?The amount of crime we have now will at least continue.?

But crime in Massachusetts didn?t just continue, it began climbing. As in the rest of the country, violent crime had been declining in Massachusetts since the early 1990s. Beginning in 1998, that decline reversed ? unlike in the rest of the country. For example, the state?s murder rate (murders per 100,000 inhabitants) bottomed out at 1.9 in 1997 and had risen to 2.8 by 2011. The national murder rate, on the other hand, kept falling; it reached a new low of 4.7 in 2011. Guns-across-borders might have explained homicide levels in Massachusetts continuing unchanged. But how can other states? policies be responsible for an increase in Massachusetts homicides?

Relative to the rest of the country, or to just the states on its borders, Massachusetts since 1998 has become a more dangerous state. Economist John Lott, using FBI crime data since 1980, shows how dramatic the contrast has been. In 1998, Massachusetts?s murder rate equaled about 70 percent of the rate for Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and New York. Now it equals 125 percent of that rate.

Clearly something bad happened to Massachusetts 15 years ago. Blaming the neighbors may be ideologically comforting. But those aren?t the states whose crime rates are up.
 
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Police search a home, don't find the perp, and leave. Homeowner is left to deal with the problem on his own.

Source.
HAMPTON -- A burglary suspect, who was shot by an elderly Hampton man after he was found hiding in a closet, remains hospitalized Tuesday.
Police say 76-year-old Leon Winder says he called 911 after he heard loud noises at his home on Patterson Ave. around 2:00 a.m. Tuesday.
Officers searched the home, saw a broken window but didn't find anyone.
It was shortly after that, while officers searched the area, that Winder, a former Army Airborne soldier, went into his barbershop attached to his home.
?I saw a coat on the floor and I looked to pick the coat up. I looked to my left to get the coat up and the guy was standing in the closet,? Winder recalled.
Winder said fired twice and hit the man in the arm.
?He didn't say nothing. I was firing on him he couldn't say nothing," he said.
That's when the suspect, identified by police as 37-year-old John Buck Fields, ran out and was caught by police.
Fields faces a charge of burglary once he is released from the hospital, Hampton Police said.
Police say Winder won't face charges.
 
Remember, you can trust the police to protect you and therefore you don't need a firearm!

Not.
 
Remember, you can trust the police to protect you and therefore you don't need a firearm!

Not.
The police so far has been doing an awesome job from protecting people from the menace of people going above the posted limit on one specific not very heavily traveled stretch of a highway!
 
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